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Is this woman, and hunters like her, ethical?

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  • #16
    Yes, he certainly looks like a real Nimrod. Probably shot that lion while standing up in the truck. In all honesty, I couldn't even guide a hunt like that. They should do it like the Massi... with a spear.

    That lovely lady, Eva, has received hundreds of death threats over her FB posting. Now thats simply wrong! But it is to be expected when you make yourself into that lightening rod I mentioned. I view the anti-hunting crowd as a separate issue. There is nothing any of us can say or do to change their minds. They are of the "meat comes on a styrofoam tray" crowd and always will be.

    What spurred my initial post was an inner-uncomfortableness I personally had after reading the story. Granted, there is a wealth of a lack of details about the hunt itself. But I believe I am safe in assuming she used a guide and likely never experienced some of the difficulties a solo hunter would have encountered.

    Possibly I can attribute my discomfort to the trophy aspect of this story to my own aging and the realization of my own mortality that often goes along with it. I take life seriously these days whether its man or beast and no longer view the taking of a life with anything but seriousness. Once the trigger is pulled or the string released there is no undoing it. I know people who kill with abandon and are known to kill anything that moves. I consider that sinful and once their behavior becomes known to me I will never hunt with them again.

    I didn't intend to become so philosophical. We each have to identify our own personal boundaries. I think I have and I'm comfortable with them.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jezcruzen View Post
      Yes, he certainly looks like a real Nimrod. Probably shot that lion while standing up in the truck. In all honesty, I couldn't even guide a hunt like that. They should do it like the Massi... with a spear..
      So true...

      Click image for larger version

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      The eye sees only what the mind is able to comprehend..

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      • #18
        Sekelbos,

        It's a shame that lard butt didn't end up as kitty chow. That lion was old and fat, much too fat to ever be wild. Especially during the dry season. Just a shame. Can't say I've ever thought much of people that have so little respect of life. If he wants a picture like that so badly, it would have been a lot cheaper to hire an artist to photoshop one for him. More ethical too. I have killed a lot for my job over the years, but always as a last resort and I always tried to find some way for the animal to be used (personal use is forbidden of government employees.)
        I try to see both sides on this issue but hunting like that is not hunting. Not in my definition. Guys like that and that kind of "hunting" only give the anti crowd tools to sway public opinion. I believe the "anti" crowd is entitled to there opinions, I just don't believe they are entitled to enforce there beliefs on my life.
        Well, I've probably said too much the way it is. Latter.

        Dale

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        • #19
          I live close to where they hunted and killed the bear. It was not a private hunt. Another gentleman on the hunt that is not connected to her family or business killed a 752lb bear the first day of the hunt. It was the second largest bear killed in NC. They hunted for 4 days and did not see a bear. They were supposed to leave on the 5th day but extended their trip for two more days. The bears were taken the following day. I do know she is getting married next year and she has said that meat from this hunt and from a Elk hunt earlier in canada will be used for the wedding reception. I am very opposed to trophy hunts but I am okay with them donating the meat. as long as someone benefits from the hunt then does it matter if it is them or someone else. Her dad does a lot with charities and promoting ethical hunting. She is new to the sport but has done wonders getting women involved in hunting.
          Anyone that would give up freedom for security, deserves neither. ~ Ben Franklin

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Gravitytester View Post
            I live close to where they hunted and killed the bear. It was not a private hunt. Another gentleman on the hunt that is not connected to her family or business killed a 752lb bear the first day of the hunt. It was the second largest bear killed in NC. They hunted for 4 days and did not see a bear. They were supposed to leave on the 5th day but extended their trip for two more days. The bears were taken the following day. I do know she is getting married next year and she has said that meat from this hunt and from a Elk hunt earlier in canada will be used for the wedding reception. I am very opposed to trophy hunts but I am okay with them donating the meat. as long as someone benefits from the hunt then does it matter if it is them or someone else. Her dad does a lot with charities and promoting ethical hunting. She is new to the sport but has done wonders getting women involved in hunting.
            Thanks for the info. :) :) :)

            Dale

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            • #21
              I'm neither pro nor anti hunt; as I understand matters hunting arose out of need .... some folks like to kill things cuz they can, not out of necessity but to refer to killin the otherwise defenseless as a sport pffft.

              Some folks justify the killin tendencies by givin the proceeds to a good cause or "the needy", again pfft.

              If you're hungry, hunt but this glamorized, senseless slaughter fails to meet on every account the definition of sport or hunting .... $0.02.

              O.W.
              Things are seldom what they seem.

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              • #22
                I hunt for food and I also give much of the meat away. I don't take my deer to a processor, I do it all my self. I am not a trophy hunter but I would it would be a lie if I said that I don't care about if I get a big buck or not.

                I would never hunt for "Sport", thats what football, baseball, hockey, bowling and other "Sports" are for. Killing for sport is just plain wrong.

                I personally find it amazing that there are folks that call themselves "preppers" that don't hunt. My question is this;

                How do you expect to be able to harvest meat if you don't maintain your skills? Hunting is NOT as easy as it looks on TV, there are certain skills that are perishable so you have to maintain those skills.

                Do you know how and where to put out a ground blind?
                Can you hunt from a ground blind? (I only hunt from the ground, I'm too big to climb a tree)
                Can you track a wounded animal? Are you sure?
                Do you know how to store wild game?
                Can you dress a deer without wasting meat?
                Can you stomach field dressing a deer? (Some folks can't)

                Stored foods won't last forever, you have to be able keep going after your stored foods are gone.

                When is the best time to hone those skills? Now or after your family is in peril?

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                • #23
                  I have watched Jim Shockey over the years. I and I know he has traveled the world on hunting trips ,taking his family with him. His son and daughter grew up in that type of environment. He started out as a guide and believes in fare chase and conservation, so I know Eva does also. It was how she was raised. The same way i raised my boys and will help raise my grandchildren. I have taught them, that if your not going to eat it do not kill it and I also taught them to hunt for meat not a trophy. BUT a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Every animal I have taken is a trophy in some sort of way. And if the meat your taken happens to be the biggest deer, bear, hog or whatever it is your hunting, will that's just more meat in the freezer, and if you have to much, donate it to a good cause. I share my kills with family and friends. I think its awesome that she donates some of the meat to charity. We had a program like that here a few years back, we have a hog problem and what hog meat we ,as in the hunters, keep we gave to the local home less shelters and kitchens to help feed the poor and homeless. But some politician got involved some how and stop that, said it had to be FDA approved meat. I also think this country needs to wake up and look at whats being put in our food at the farms and what not, one day they will see the light. An another thing that gets me, is on a lot of the "hunting " shows. They call themselves " sportsmen" and not hunters. They are the trophy hunters. They don't hunt for meat, and that's given us, the hunters, a bad rap.
                  Semper Fi

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                  • #24
                    I come from a long line of hunters in my family as well as have a few friends that hunt. They do it to put meat on the table. That woman looks like she killed that bear for sport not for food. I can't see killing an animal unless it is for food. If not for yourself than at least to donate the food for people in need of food.

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                    • #25
                      it'd be understanding if a person has plenty of bear meat,or simply dont like the taste of bear meat.when it comes to donating it..then turn around and show it off,is understandable..people shoot and kill deer for the meat then have it's head mounted to show it off as well,all the time.now why should she do any different?especially if she keeps things right on her part.pluss others are getting to put meat into their stomachs..
                      be prepared,be worried,be careful..and watch your 6

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                      • #26
                        It's hard to put my feelings on this into words accurately.

                        With the building of highways, cities, farms, etc, we changed the environment. Because of those changes, animal populations now have to be controlled. I think every state has created a department to regulate wildlife and manage those populations. It is through those regulations that hunting now takes place. If the hunting that they license and even encourage did not take place, the ensuing overpopulation would be horrible for both the animals and us people. Therefore, I fully support the states hunting programs.

                        That said, I am against cruelty and lack of respect toward animals. All life is sacred and should be treated as such. I think most sport hunters have that respect. All the hunters I have been around take great effort to waste as little of the kill as is reasonable. I think the plight of hunted animals is much better than most "food" animals like cattle, chickens, and pigs.

                        From a young boy, I grew up hunting and my Dad taught be about the respect and importance of "waste not". However, I don't hunt anymore. After spending a number of years hunting and taking men, I find no thrill or interest in hunting animals now. If I needed to kill an animal to eat, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I would thank the animal and God for the blessing.

                        In a country where nobody is more than an hour to a grocery store, I think all hunters are hunting for sport. As long as they're not cruel or wasteful, I'm glad they are there. If they weren't hunting for sport, I would have to occasionally shoot a bear to be safe. Driving would be hazardous. I would hate to have to see the starving, diseased, and injured animals everywhere.

                        The state of Florida seems to be doing an excellent job. I see quite a bit of wildlife. It looks to be very healthy. The territory of predatory animals like bear and panther are actually expanding.

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                        • #27
                          I recently read that some guy paid $350,000.00 to shoot an endangered Black Rhino. According to the report the Rhino was old and not an integral part of a population. The money was going to conservation for the Black Rhino. It still didn't sit well with me. It just seemed wrong. I get both sides of the argument, but why not a "Green Hunt". You go through all of the same processes as a regular hunt, but the animal is tranquilized. Take your pictures, and leave. The animal wakes up with a headache. Why did he have to kill it? Shouldn't the be some dignity for an animal that survives that long?
                          The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

                          Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you are stupid, and make bad decisions.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Morgan101 View Post
                            I recently read that some guy paid $350,000.00 to shoot an endangered Black Rhino. According to the report the Rhino was old and not an integral part of a population. The money was going to conservation for the Black Rhino. It still didn't sit well with me. It just seemed wrong. I get both sides of the argument, but why not a "Green Hunt". You go through all of the same processes as a regular hunt, but the animal is tranquilized. Take your pictures, and leave. The animal wakes up with a headache. Why did he have to kill it? Shouldn't the be some dignity for an animal that survives that long?
                            Morgan,
                            I understand your feelings on what I consider a "canned hunt" but I'm not a fan of "Green hunts" either. It's not the killing of the animal that I object to but the ethics of fair play in the hunt. If you want to hunt dangerous game animals that can kill you, then hunt them on the ground with the animal so it has the opportunity to kill you also.

                            The biological and management aspects of hunting though, is to kill and remove those animals from the population. Either for habitat management or for managing the human/wildlife conflict dynamics. Without hunting (human and natural predation) the wildlife is subject to the forces of nature which are very destructive,(disease, starvation, etc.) not only the for the wildlife populations but also for there habitats. Green hunts do nothing to enhance wildlife management and often result in the death of the tranquilized animal anyway after it has been released. Which results in the waste of that animal. Wild animals are often stressed to the point of death when tranquilized, even with the best of after action/capture treatment.
                            Just wanted to put the info out there as it's often kept quiet within the wildlife management profession.

                            Dale

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                            • #29
                              Dalewick: You have forgotten more about wildlife management than I will ever know. I always appreciate your opinion. I was under the impression (maybe naively so) that a Green Hunt was the same experience as a real hunt, on the ground as you described it. You just tranquilized the animal rather killing it. I was also under the impression that the animal was not harmed. Maybe this is info put out by the people who are selling Green Hunts. Still, my heart hurt to think of that old Black Rhino being put down. I think there is a soft spot in my heart (maybe in my head) for rhinos in general. If it was in a controlled environment couldn't it have been put out to pasture, so to speak, and spend its last days in peace?

                              Thanks for your input and perspective.
                              The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

                              Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you are stupid, and make bad decisions.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Morgan101 View Post
                                Dalewick: You have forgotten more about wildlife management than I will ever know. I always appreciate your opinion. I was under the impression (maybe naively so) that a Green Hunt was the same experience as a real hunt, on the ground as you described it. You just tranquilized the animal rather killing it. I was also under the impression that the animal was not harmed. Maybe this is info put out by the people who are selling Green Hunts. Still, my heart hurt to think of that old Black Rhino being put down. I think there is a soft spot in my heart (maybe in my head) for rhinos in general. If it was in a controlled environment couldn't it have been put out to pasture, so to speak, and spend its last days in peace?

                                Thanks for your input and perspective.
                                Morgan, Most wild rhino's are currently under 24 hour a day armed guards, to prevent or reduce poaching. It may have simply been a case that the managing agency knew the animal was beyond it's breeding capability or in reduced health and was then worth more as a "custom hunt" where the money is used for managing the remaining population and possibly even purchasing additional land for habitat. Which not only benefits the rhinos but all other wildlife species and then also helping the local citizens by spreading the wealth of visiting tourist and sanctioned hunting. Tourism and hunting are proving themselves to benefit the locals to the degree that the locals are self monitoring and control poachers. Poaching benefits only the poacher, while hunting with all of the people the lodges and professional hunters hire benefits the community. A win, win.

                                Dale

                                Additional info: http://phasa.co.za/what-is-in-the-ne...n-hunting.html
                                Last edited by dalewick; 05-22-2015, 07:10 PM.

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