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  • nicnap
    replied
    Originally posted by SandHillsHillbilly View Post
    I like this idea. Me and the GF have been looking around Chesterfield county for a suitable piece of land for BIL. I would be willing to go in on something like this.

    One idea you might want to think of is living quarters. Barack style would do for only short term.
    Simple 3 room cabins with a loft would be easy to build and could be duplicated with ease. Could easily sleep 4-6 to people. This way families with kids would not be group with a bunch of single people. Families could have their needed privacy and people will eventually form a group of close friends who could share a cabin. This way it would be equitable for everyone.

    Skills Yes some of us are not the brawny type, but we do bring other skills. I can do electrical, plumbing, carpenter, and mechanical work.

    Maybe some type of resume from everyone as far as skills and specialized knowledge. This would aide in determining who is best for what needs of the BOL.

    I don't want to sound like a socialist or hippy, but it will take an effort of some type to make this work for everyone. Yes you will have those that do not agree with a decision. Decision would be by a vote of everyone involved. Some may say that would slow the process. Yes but a gradual change is much better to handle than an instantaneous one.

    Have you thought about Mt. Croghan? Lots of land for sale or lease there. Lot of it is good for farming, and just enough hills to be able to defend it. Or you could head over to White Store in Anson/Union cty. NC.
    Last edited by nicnap; 04-14-2009, 09:46 AM.

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  • prkchp76
    replied
    hey guys we need to figure this thing out somehow before june i think thats when the storm troopers are going to start attacking lets go........[storm troopers aree the bama supporters]

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  • C141-B LOAD
    replied
    Why not?

    Count me in. I live very close to Uwharrie Nat Forest. And would be willing to go in on the dues/fees, and would love to help with any of the labor involved.I have been scouting that area for awhile trying to find a secluded area to have a BOL.

    Leave a comment:


  • cbprice797
    replied
    OK a BOL is great idea and I know it is over 3 months since the last post on this thread, I might start another similar one. Instead of buying lumber or cutting trees off the land we can buy old used telephone poles from the state. They are treated and hard as hell and woould make great walls. Also could build the cabins on top of CONNEX containers. Finally, we could get a LONG term lease. Some companies in Alabama lease for 50 and 75 years. Just make sure that the lease carries over to any new owner of the land. That way we don't have to worry about losing our BOL.

    Ok I keep reading the join date on the right as the POST date. It hasn't been 3 months since last posting for this thread hehe
    Last edited by cbprice797; 03-12-2009, 01:34 PM. Reason: I can't read

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  • prkchp76
    replied
    hey this is coming together great

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  • Zombie Axe
    replied
    great post LH :)

    Yeah, I think JWR thinks his AO is the best... because he is there ;)

    I agree... trust is a big obstacle to many... but you gotta start somewhere :)

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  • pathfinder3081
    replied
    LH, thanks for such a sobering reality.
    Large scale camps and properties come with a lot of questions. There are many legal issues in such an endeavor. As you have noted, some members might bug out of the commitment it every things keeps up and the Economy holds its ground.
    Then the nightmare becomes real and the camps become Noah’s Ark. One thing of course would be timing and it’s hard to predict. (But it’s getting easier) If it did hit the fan, how long would will it take the infrastructure of law and order to break down? How large should the individual camp be in size? Perhaps our best hope would be that a chain could be created with each link in the chain being somewhat totally self sufficient. The stronger links assisting the weaker ones in skills or trade that the other do not have. Platoon size? 50 or less? It takes quite a few bodies to run a small “colony” if you will. Not to shed light on my knowledge of the “Communal living” and the like, but 30 to 50 was basic numbers I have seen and that was just a cat that had a bunch of land and let people park there campers on it. They had work weekends, party weekends and the like.
    I am in agreement with your notes about “Locations and Terrain”. It is good military strategy and text. Our best hope that we would only have to defend property and life against groups of bandits and looters and that any Military force of any government left would just pass us by. Being on the Defense of an area can be much more difficult than being mobile.
    Let me extend my compliments all here in the Web site. Very good info and thought on a variety of things.

    PF
    Last edited by pathfinder3081; 02-27-2009, 01:38 PM. Reason: spealling

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  • Vicious Ignernt
    replied
    Folks,
    Anyone remember the Jamestown Colony?
    V

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  • prkchp76
    replied
    i say we have one in sc like the hillbilly said around chester field that way you can come from anywhere in the state away from the cities where the rip rap will be hiding hillbilly pm we need to talk

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  • Long_Hunter
    replied
    This is some really great discussion on an xcolony BOL and has highlighted the different approaches to a BOL accommodating more than one or two families. Many of the obstacles and concerns with such an endeavor have already been mentioned; it is not a task to be undertaken lightly and cannot be done at all by strangers whom have only met once or twice (tried it once and still have not gotten all our “commitment” back).

    Trust is the bedrock; it is layered with individuals and families that bring knowledge, skills, and abilities together to form a reliable, trustworthy group, capable of sustaining the type of long term commitment necessary for an enduring BOL.

    First impressions mean a lot, both on-line and in person, but there is no way on-line to take into account the “whole person”; this can only be done face to face and with more than one meeting. We have to share common beliefs, values, and the same moral compass. I do not believe religion is as important as religious tolerance; if we share the same values and beliefs, I do not care if you are a Baptist, protestant, Methodist, or any other denomination. If you share my values and beliefs, then you are already a Christian.
    It is difficult to have a statewide meet and greet the first time with complete strangers, let alone several times. With work schedules, family commitments, and other concerns, most people are simply unwilling or unable to travel outside their local area. It is far easier to meet locally first, and then being able to “buddy-up”, to attend a broader gathering. Meeting locally first also allows gauging of the level of commitment each of us is bringing to the table. It lets people decide closer to home if this is really the direction they want move in or if it’s just a weekend gig.

    Having said all this…

    1. How many individuals/families would we allow in? May require more than one BOL. This is important: it is a base number from which nearly everything else is derived. What knowledge, skills, and abilities can each contribute? Sustaining long term = no freeloaders, everyone must contribute something.
    2. Location, location, location. Here I disagree with J.W. Rawles and his assertion that there are no good locations east of the Mississippi. He uses a night-time sat photo of the US as evidence. I believe there are plenty of excellent locations, some here in NC, TN, WV, MA, NY, southeastern OH, and UP of MI, just to mention a few. Selecting a site is not just about remoteness from population centers; it is also about the “natural lines of drift”. Mass migrations of people move like water, following the path of least resistance; rugged terrain, natural barriers can replace extreme remoteness any day. I was raised on an Appalachian hill farm; you can farm in those mountains. My ideal location would be The Last Valley… ever seen it?
    3. Finances. Money. It takes a lot of money, an awful lot of money, to build and supply a BOL on the scale being discussed here. How is it generated, long term? Is there an accountant here?
    4. Ownership: xcolony LLC? Is there a lawyer on the forum? We would need one with shared beliefs. There are a lot of legalities that will need dealt with.
    5. Single living structure or multiple family structures? I prefer multiple family structures within a given area, designed and situated in a manner so that they are mutually supported for defense. These structures form a “perimeter” that protects centrally located common buildings. The castle picture made me ill; just my opinion. There are many pros and cons to both methods, but we would have to decide.
    6. Shared workload; based on the knowledge, skills, and abilities that each individual or family brings on-board, or has the potential to contribute to.
    7. Leadership: I do not advocate any single designated leader. I have come to favor a committee type leadership with a rotating chair. The chair facilitates the discussion and decision making process with the group to gain consensus on a decision. Consensus does not always equate to 100% “I completely agree”, but more like “I agree to disagree, but lets go ahead and do it.” silence always = agreement. Amongst the group there will be specialists or professionals from certain fields whose knowledge in that particular area would be relied on heavily to make the best decision. Personally, I don’t believe you can make the right decision, only the best decision given the circumstances. Every voice counts, every opinion matters and should be heard, especially if it affects the entire group. Also, having a set of by-laws, or a code of conduct, while at the BOL that everyone discusses and agrees to when, or if, this project gets off the ground.
    8. Let’s say we do this, raise money and locate and build the grandmother of all BOLs. Five years later, or at anytime, the world is still tooling along with no change and someone decides they no longer feel the same way and stop participating, or they perceive that they have been wronged in some way by a member, or members, of the group, or they have to move because of a family or work arrabgement. Then they want to recoup what money they have put into it, supplies, etc… I think we all can see the moral issues here, but the legal issues of just such a move could unravel the entire project. Do we a need a contractual agreement with an exist clause (you can leave, take your personal supplies, but that’s it) and that clarifies just what you are getting yourself or family into, from a current legal perspective??? Oh, and then a year or so later the balloon goes up and this person or family is hightailing it back to our location, along with a pack of new friends. I know, I am rambling; just a lot to consider.

    This is off the top of my head, and if you are still awake after having read through it, then perhaps at the least I given us all something more to think about. I have definitely given myself more to consider.

    On a personal note:
    Our family had two BOLs in NC; we now have one, in the far eastern reaches of the state. We also have reciprocal agreements with other families that we networked with while in the service that live in three other eastern states, and finally, the “homeplace” where our entire extended family is suppose to collapse back to when everything really turns to shit, also in another state. We (my spouse and I) would consider a serious opportunity at another BOL, with another group, where the spontaneous family squabbles do not constantly threaten to undermine everything.

    Enough, I need a drink.
    Thanks.
    LH
    Last edited by Long_Hunter; 02-26-2009, 03:40 PM.

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  • Morguns1Cam
    replied
    Lots of good ideas here, Keep in mind the most important features of a BOL is being able to get there WTSHTF. If its too far away from your location, getting there may be a major problem. I again make reference to to the book by James Wesley Rawls, Patiots: Surviving the coming collapse. The author is a former military intelligence officer. I would really urge all of you to read this book!
    As widespread as our group is we may need to set up several BOL's , link up on Ham radios. Having to travel more that a couple hundred miles after the crunch might be a difficult not to mention hazardous undertaking.
    Just my thoughts!
    Cam

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  • SandHillsHillbilly
    replied
    A leader to gather resume? Best one I can think of is right here. The forum provides a good place to start. I know we have the introduction area, but what about a skills and qualifications area? Maybe people don't feel comfortable enough to post?

    At this point it would be difficult as a group to pick someone to be a leader, as very few of us have ever met face to face. I really don't like the word leader something more along the lines of counselor would be more appropriate. This is where monthly meet and greets would be great way for everyone to become familiar with everyone else. At first each state would be hosting their own M&G. To make them easier for everyone each month could be in a different part of the state. The person in that portion of the state would be responsible for hosting and arrangements. Then together as a group a bi-monthly joint state M&G. This would also allow us to compile ideas and work on solutions.

    In a true SHTF scenario in a group setting the idea of a fortress in beneficial to all. Take a step back in time to medieval times. Most everyone lived outside of the fort. They considered the fort a place to do there business and trading. It was always the place where they evacuated to in times of invading armies. In a worst case scenario Yes ScoutGunner the idea of a mini fort would provide protection of people and supplies. The problem is long term siege. This was the major downfall of all fortifications. While they can't get in you can't get out. Here is a plan I picked off another site of a mini-fort that with some mods could suit what you mention. It is of simple concrete construction. It does have some serious protection issues with blind corners that could be remedied.

    http://www.theplancollection.com/house-plans/home-plan-17962



    Now that I have run on way to long. I will leave it to be discussed further.

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  • VillagelooN
    replied
    [QUOTE=Diesel;2104]Certainly interesting, I know up in the northern kingdom of vermont a large paper sompany does the same thing, and people build snowmobile and hunt shacks, some very elaborate up there on their leased land.

    I'll put my $.02 in here because it's been a hot topic round' here and might might be useful when looking to lease.

    Champion Paper Co.(Maine) sold the land to the State of Vermont(taxpayers). It is now titled the West Mountain Wildlife Management Area.



    "The hunters holding leases on the former Champion lands have been wondering about the future of their camps since the State of Vermont took title in 1999. At that time, 243 individuals owned 73 camps dispersed over the 22,000 acres now owned by the State. This January, a prestigious seven-member study committee established pursuant to Vermont statute completed its recommendations for the future of the leases in the region, West Mountain Wildlife Management Area.

    However, the enabling legislation for the study committee provided for a broader range of conclusions, “permitting the current leaseholders to purchase the land beneath their camps; permitting leaseholders to transfer their leasehold interest to immediate family members in perpetuity; or permitting the current leaseholders to sell their camps and transfer perpetual leasehold interests to persons other than immediate family members, granting the agency of natural resources the right of first refusal.”

    By comparison, for the 298 camps on the 139,000 acres of Champion lands in New York that were sold at the same time, those camps on the lands that the State acquired in fee simple, because they are in riverine areas, were given only five years within which they are allowed to renew their leases, but those where a timber investment group acquired the underlying title, with the State acquiring conservation easements on the lands, were allowed fifteen years."
    http://prfamerica.org/2002/VT-Study-Champion-Intl.html (it's1 pg )

    They didn't lease the land. They were able to build a camp and lease the right to keep it. The lease was life +20yrs but they wan't to pass that on to their kids as thier parents did.

    Anyone can still hunt there;however, I was in a GIS class last yr and we worked on maps for just this area and you can believe the state is looking at closing some or all road access.

    News last night: International paper is laying off people"temporarily".

    Main thought would be your lease holder could sell out from under you.

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  • ScoutGunner
    replied
    Chesterfield county

    Chesterfield county is nice. Hilly but has some flat areas for farming with lots of woods and nearby streams. The resume idea was good. Any consensus on a leader to at least gather resume's and set up a meeting place?
    The simple 3 room cabins with loft are nice for privacy but bad for defensive. I see the worst case scenarios being groups fo marauders armed to the teeth and looking to steal and murder those who have some sustenance. A large structure built with defense in mind would be best for a group of folks bent on surviving, like a mini fort. High ground nearby for hidden surveilance of surrounding areas is necessary as you want to see them coming long before they get to you. Of course, trip wired flares surrounding the area would help some even though wild animals will set them off some times. The devil is in the details and need to be worked out and built long before the SHTF.
    I rather think we will suffer an economic collapse. Heritage group is saying we will have 90%taxes in 4 years to cover the debt we have now accumulated. The world economy is worse than us now and we can expect it to go downhill rapidly as no serious cost cutting tactics have been employed.
    Now I'm depressed...time for some bourbon.

    Leave a comment:


  • SandHillsHillbilly
    replied
    I like this idea. Me and the GF have been looking around Chesterfield county for a suitable piece of land for BIL. I would be willing to go in on something like this.

    One idea you might want to think of is living quarters. Barack style would do for only short term.
    Simple 3 room cabins with a loft would be easy to build and could be duplicated with ease. Could easily sleep 4-6 to people. This way families with kids would not be group with a bunch of single people. Families could have their needed privacy and people will eventually form a group of close friends who could share a cabin. This way it would be equitable for everyone.

    Skills Yes some of us are not the brawny type, but we do bring other skills. I can do electrical, plumbing, carpenter, and mechanical work.

    Maybe some type of resume from everyone as far as skills and specialized knowledge. This would aide in determining who is best for what needs of the BOL.

    I don't want to sound like a socialist or hippy, but it will take an effort of some type to make this work for everyone. Yes you will have those that do not agree with a decision. Decision would be by a vote of everyone involved. Some may say that would slow the process. Yes but a gradual change is much better to handle than an instantaneous one.

    Leave a comment:

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