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  • Dancing in the Dark

    Before I start I'll let you know I'm not talking about night vision goggles. I feel that could be covered by someone else if they want. I have used them, but it's not an area I keep up to date on.

    I want to talk about getting yourself used to doing things at night without using white light as much as possible. You always want to be safe so there are definately times white light is needed, but do yourself a favor and train without it as much as possible.

    I have been camping numerous times and always had at least one person who kept their light on non stop. To me this is nothing but a pain in the "butt!"

    White light only messes with a persons natural night vision abilities. If you just let you eyes adapt to the darkness you will be surprised at how well you can really see. I always carry a flashlight, but try to use it as little as possible to save batteries and protect my night vision. If I am using it to tie a knot, look through a bag or perform some type of task I use the option of having a red lense on it. This is far less harsh on your eyes and allows your eyes to adjust quicker once your done. If following a trail at night with reflective markers a red light will work just as well and you can also pick up on the eyes of critters in the woods with a red light just a easy even if you think they are out of range.

    If you have to use your white light or if you think someone might shine one at you, close one eye and keep it closed until the light is off. By closing one eye your vision will adjust quicker then if both were open.

    A good habit to get into is organizing your gear and performing certain tasks without light at all. You can do this by packing things in a organized way and sticking with that pattern. A great thing to do is try performing tasks in a dark room and/or in the back yard at night to build confidence/become confident in yourself. If you have kids who have that fear of the dark include them in your practice and make a game out of it so it can be a fun way of overcoming their fears. To be honest I feel safer in the dark because the dark can be your friend if you need to hide. I also feel safer in the woods at night then I do on a well lighted city street.

    A guy I camped with one time brought his son along and did something really cool at night. He tied a chemlight off on his sons belt loop and let me tell you it was very easy to keep track of him. I thought this was an awesome idea!

    If hiking at night for whatever reason hanging a chemlight off your backside on each individual works very well, as does the entrance to a tent, a hazard etc...There are numerous types of chemlights out there, you don't need to have the big expensive monsters. I even have some for placing on my fishing bobbers at night. These little ones have numerous other applications so just use your imagination.

    Give your eyes time to adjust after leaving a well lighted area or after getting out of the car in the dark after driving. Having a hiking pole or staff makes life easier also at night. When moving at night when ever possible focus at the tops of trees ahead of you for example. Here you will notice far more contrast because of the sky behind them. I believe 100% in compasses that DO NOT require white light to charge them. A tritium compass just as tritium sights on a firearm are worth their weight in gold in my opinion. If you ever have to perform a task with white light and want to remain hidden, for ex. read a map, just throw a poncho over yourself and turn it on. A red light would probably work better though.

    Now go have some fun and put these things to practice. It will save on batteries and just build that confidence which we all need to do from time to time.

    Common sense and safety should always come first use your judgement in regards to when it is benificial to use white light or not, but knowing how to function without it when it isn't needed is a good skill to have especially if you want to avoid prying eyes.

    Oh ya, two more things...we all know how much of a pain bugs are by being attracted to white light so there is another reason to avoid it and when picking nightcrawlers a red lens works better because the worms don't feel as much heat from the light.
    Last edited by Snow Walker; 06-02-2011, 06:24 AM.

  • #2
    I have an LED flashlight that can be white, red, or green. I love the green light for reading maps at night.
    "If Howdy Doody runs against him, I'm voting for the puppet." - SkyOwl's Wife, 2012

    Comment


    • #3
      Great post Snow Walker. I don't like a lot of light when camping either. Gives you a false sense of security.
      G.I.H.S.O. Going In Hot, Safety Off.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TheLastMountainMan View Post
        Great post Snow Walker. I don't like a lot of light when camping either. Gives you a false sense of security.
        You know, the way you put it..."false sense of security" is so VERY true. Why is it I can't find those words when I'm trying to write something up?

        You are so right!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Skyowl's Wife View Post
          I have an LED flashlight that can be white, red, or green. I love the green light for reading maps at night.
          What type of light is that? I like the idea of the green light.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Snow Walker View Post
            What type of light is that? I like the idea of the green light.
            http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-3A...light/13029916

            I LOVE it!

            That one says RWB, mine is RWG.
            "If Howdy Doody runs against him, I'm voting for the puppet." - SkyOwl's Wife, 2012

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Skyowl's Wife View Post
              http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-3A...light/13029916

              I LOVE it!

              That one says RWB, mine is RWG.
              Thanks, I'm going to check that out later today.

              Comment


              • #8
                I like to play in the dark.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I like the green light also, green and red will not spook game as bad as a white light.
                  "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
                  -Ben Franklin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stitch View Post
                    I like to play in the dark.
                    me too....:)

                    Don't fear the night.....fear what hunts at night....



                    Last edited by Echo2; 06-02-2011, 07:36 PM.
                    Live like you'll die tomorrow, learn like you'll live forever.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Echo2 View Post
                      me too....:)

                      Don't fear the night.....fear what hunts at night....

                      [img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1071/5114765104_7fbc966782.jp

                      The night is our friend! ;)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The glow-stick case at the bottom is handy too....

                        Live like you'll die tomorrow, learn like you'll live forever.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Have not been on here in a while... life off-line takes priority, but some of the posts I have read on here today trying to catch up... this one just pushed me... watch out for my sarcasm and don't take it personal.

                          "Dancing in the Dark", who are you, Bruce Springsteen?! Go camping, use a coleman and light the world up- nobody cares cause you are CAMPING... your life is not at risk; build a fire and make some smores! You either use light or you don't, who cares.

                          Ah, but the world as you knew it has ended and you are moving cross-country to get to your well stocked & provisioned BOL... "camping" is nothing more than a word that conjures up rapidly fading memories of a past that is never, ever coming back. Go ahead and camp, tie chem lights to your kids, hell, hang'em on your tent... light it up like a post-apocalyptic christmas tree! Yeah, make it easy for the RAIDER; the guy that has some serious skills, but always put off "prepping" and is now out there in the countryside... if your lucky he will just take what he wants and you will wake to an empty camp, he might even offer his skills in trade for supplies... most likely you will never wake at all and your legacy is left for the vultures & coyotes.

                          Hopefully you are not a "cherry" and you have some developed, practiced skills. Prior military? Maybe you know some things and maybe you don't... really depends on what you did and if you bothered to keep those skills up. Ever heard of "perishable skills"?

                          Posted this on here a couple years ago... some of it you can apply, some you cannot because it is military/team specific, but hopefully you are not traveling alone. Oh, by the way, the two best colored lights to use at night, if you must, are green and blue. Red is dead and death waits in the dark. Darkness is only your friend when you own it (160 SOAR "We Own The Night").


                          RON (Remain Over Night) TIPS

                          183. Practice proper RON procedures when your team is training, even if you are on a rifle range. Take advantage of all training opportunities.
                          184. Select a tentative RON site from your map at least two hours in advance.
                          185. After passing a suitable RON site, "fish-hook" back and move into your selected position so that you can observe your own trail.
                          186. Don't form the common habit of constantly turning to the same direction (always to the left, or always to the right) when fish-hooking.
                          187. When in position, personnel should keep their equipment on and remain alert until the perimeter has been checked for 360 degrees at a distance of no less than 50 meters.
                          188. Packs should not be taken off until it is dark.
                          189. When deploying the team for RON, place the point man in a position opposite the most likely avenue of approach, to lead the team out in case of emergency.
                          190. Use aiming stakes to help orient weapons toward avenues of approach.
                          191. Azimuths (OT lines) and distances to preplanned targets should be recorded prior to nightfall. Nearby large trees or pre-positioned stakes can aid as hasty reference points for calling in artillery at night.
                          192. Prior to dark, the team leader should tell each man the primary and alternate rally points.
                          193. One half of the team should have their compasses set for the primary rally point and the other half for the alternate. If the enemy comes from the direction of the primary rally point, any man with the azimuth of the alternate rally point set on his compass can lead the team out.
                          194. A buddy system should be established in case casualties are taken at night. Each man will take care of his buddy and his buddy's equipment if the buddy is wounded, injured, or killed.
                          195. The pack or rucksack can be used as a pillow. However, ensure that the carrying straps are in the "up" position for easy insertion of the arms in case of rapid withdrawal.
                          196. It is permissible to unhook your LCE in the RON, but it should never be taken completely off at any time during the entire stay in the field.
                          197. A poncho, jungle sweater and rain jacket are sufficient for sleeping.
                          198. If a person coughs in his sleep, give him as much cough syrup as he can tolerate without going punchy.
                          199. Team members should not "bunch up" or sleep next to each other. One grenade or burst of fire could get them all. In small reconnaissance patrols, all team members should be able to touch each other without moving from position. When this is not possible due to the terrain, breakable cord can be tied from patrol member to patrol member for alerting each other at night.
                          200. Know what your next day's plans are before settling down for the night.
                          201. At dark, each team member should take out two or three grenades and place them near at hand for use if hit at night. Set them so they won't roll away if they're accidentally bumped.
                          202. Wait until last light to emplace your claymores around your RON site so you won't lose them if you're run out of your RON before dark.
                          203. When the enemy discovers your RON at night, use frags first, then claymores (explosions are disorienting and don't necessarily give your position away), then M16/M203 (the muzzle flashes will pinpoint your location), and lastly SAW/M60 (automatic weapons always draw maximum return fire).
                          204. In some instances, it is better not to put claymores around RON positions but to rely on the use of CS grenades instead, for the following reasons:
                           When claymores have been put out and the enemy is discovered to be moving in on the team, the team might stay in place too long, waiting for the enemy to enter the killing zone.
                           If the team discovers the enemy moving in on them, the enemy will normally be "on line," not knowing the exact position of the team. If no claymores are out, predesignated team members will throw CS grenades in the direction of the enemy force. After the gas begins to disperse, the team can withdraw. When the enemy is hit with the CS, he will normally panic. If he has gas masks with him and puts them on, he will not see clearly. If he does not have them, he will run away and may even fire his weapons indiscriminately, causing overall confusion and panic. In either case, the team has a good chance to escape, unharmed and unseen.
                           If a claymore is triggered, a grenade thrown or a rifle fired, the enemy might be able to orient on the team, flank it, and box it in.
                          205. If claymores are used around an RON site, consider taping plastic packets of CS to the front of the mines.
                          206. Do not send radio transmissions from your RON site unless they are absolutely necessary. Be prepared to move if you do transmit.
                          207. Never smoke or chew tobacco or eat chow in your RON position. The odor of the food or tobacco will give your position away.
                          208. All team members should be awake, alert, and ready to move prior to first light.
                          209. Another 360-degree check of the perimeter at a distance of at least 50 meters should be made prior to recovering claymores and sensors and moving out.
                          210. A thorough check should be made of the RON site just before departure to ensure that nothing is left behind and that the entire site is sterile.
                          211. Be alert when leaving your RON. If you have been seen, you will probably be attacked or ambushed within 300 meters.
                          212. Habits are easily formed around certain times of the day. For example, some teams always move into a RON site at 1830 or into a noon break position at exactly 1100 every day. If the enemy has been observing you, he will notice this and plan an ambush for you.


                          Hopefully you got something out of this post, but remember, I really don't care one way or another. Don't play at "prepping" or "survival" and tip toe around touchy-feely stuff. The reality of a world gone to shit will be worse than anything you have read about or seen in a movie because you will be living it everyday; don't candy coat it or you'll choke on it.

                          Long Hunter
                          RLTW!
                          Last edited by Long_Hunter; 06-08-2011, 08:04 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Long_Hunter View Post
                            Have not been on here in a while... life off-line takes priority, but some of the posts I have read on here today trying to catch up... this one just pushed me... watch out for my sarcasm and don't take it personal.

                            "Dancing in the Dark", who are you, Bruce Springsteen?! Go camping, use a coleman and light the world up- nobody cares cause you are CAMPING... your life is not at risk; build a fire and make some smores! You either use light or you don't, who cares.

                            Ah, but the world as you knew it has ended and you are moving cross-country to get to your well stocked & provisioned BOL... "camping" is nothing more than a word that conjures up rapidly fading memories of a past that is never, ever coming back. Go ahead and camp, tie chem lights to your kids, hell, hang'em on your tent... light it up like a post-apocalyptic christmas tree! Yeah, make it easy for the RAIDER; the guy that has some serious skills, but always put off "prepping" and is now out there in the countryside... if your lucky he will just take what he wants and you will wake to an empty camp, he might even offer his skills in trade for supplies... most likely you will never wake at all and your legacy is left for the vultures & coyotes.

                            Hopefully you are not a "cherry" and you have some developed, practiced skills. Prior military? Maybe you know some things and maybe you don't... really depends on what you did and if you bothered to keep those skills up. Ever heard of "perishable skills"?

                            Posted this on here a couple years ago... some of it you can apply, some you cannot because it is military/team specific, but hopefully you are not traveling alone. Oh, by the way, the two best colored lights to use at night, if you must, are green and blue. Red is dead and death waits in the dark. Darkness is only your friend when you own it (160 SOAR "We Own The Night").


                            RON (Remain Over Night) TIPS

                            183. Practice proper RON procedures when your team is training, even if you are on a rifle range. Take advantage of all training opportunities.
                            184. Select a tentative RON site from your map at least two hours in advance.
                            185. After passing a suitable RON site, "fish-hook" back and move into your selected position so that you can observe your own trail.
                            186. Don't form the common habit of constantly turning to the same direction (always to the left, or always to the right) when fish-hooking.
                            187. When in position, personnel should keep their equipment on and remain alert until the perimeter has been checked for 360 degrees at a distance of no less than 50 meters.
                            188. Packs should not be taken off until it is dark.
                            189. When deploying the team for RON, place the point man in a position opposite the most likely avenue of approach, to lead the team out in case of emergency.
                            190. Use aiming stakes to help orient weapons toward avenues of approach.
                            191. Azimuths (OT lines) and distances to preplanned targets should be recorded prior to nightfall. Nearby large trees or pre-positioned stakes can aid as hasty reference points for calling in artillery at night.
                            192. Prior to dark, the team leader should tell each man the primary and alternate rally points.
                            193. One half of the team should have their compasses set for the primary rally point and the other half for the alternate. If the enemy comes from the direction of the primary rally point, any man with the azimuth of the alternate rally point set on his compass can lead the team out.
                            194. A buddy system should be established in case casualties are taken at night. Each man will take care of his buddy and his buddy's equipment if the buddy is wounded, injured, or killed.
                            195. The pack or rucksack can be used as a pillow. However, ensure that the carrying straps are in the "up" position for easy insertion of the arms in case of rapid withdrawal.
                            196. It is permissible to unhook your LCE in the RON, but it should never be taken completely off at any time during the entire stay in the field.
                            197. A poncho, jungle sweater and rain jacket are sufficient for sleeping.
                            198. If a person coughs in his sleep, give him as much cough syrup as he can tolerate without going punchy.
                            199. Team members should not "bunch up" or sleep next to each other. One grenade or burst of fire could get them all. In small reconnaissance patrols, all team members should be able to touch each other without moving from position. When this is not possible due to the terrain, breakable cord can be tied from patrol member to patrol member for alerting each other at night.
                            200. Know what your next day's plans are before settling down for the night.
                            201. At dark, each team member should take out two or three grenades and place them near at hand for use if hit at night. Set them so they won't roll away if they're accidentally bumped.
                            202. Wait until last light to emplace your claymores around your RON site so you won't lose them if you're run out of your RON before dark.
                            203. When the enemy discovers your RON at night, use frags first, then claymores (explosions are disorienting and don't necessarily give your position away), then M16/M203 (the muzzle flashes will pinpoint your location), and lastly SAW/M60 (automatic weapons always draw maximum return fire).
                            204. In some instances, it is better not to put claymores around RON positions but to rely on the use of CS grenades instead, for the following reasons:
                             When claymores have been put out and the enemy is discovered to be moving in on the team, the team might stay in place too long, waiting for the enemy to enter the killing zone.
                             If the team discovers the enemy moving in on them, the enemy will normally be "on line," not knowing the exact position of the team. If no claymores are out, predesignated team members will throw CS grenades in the direction of the enemy force. After the gas begins to disperse, the team can withdraw. When the enemy is hit with the CS, he will normally panic. If he has gas masks with him and puts them on, he will not see clearly. If he does not have them, he will run away and may even fire his weapons indiscriminately, causing overall confusion and panic. In either case, the team has a good chance to escape, unharmed and unseen.
                             If a claymore is triggered, a grenade thrown or a rifle fired, the enemy might be able to orient on the team, flank it, and box it in.
                            205. If claymores are used around an RON site, consider taping plastic packets of CS to the front of the mines.
                            206. Do not send radio transmissions from your RON site unless they are absolutely necessary. Be prepared to move if you do transmit.
                            207. Never smoke or chew tobacco or eat chow in your RON position. The odor of the food or tobacco will give your position away.
                            208. All team members should be awake, alert, and ready to move prior to first light.
                            209. Another 360-degree check of the perimeter at a distance of at least 50 meters should be made prior to recovering claymores and sensors and moving out.
                            210. A thorough check should be made of the RON site just before departure to ensure that nothing is left behind and that the entire site is sterile.
                            211. Be alert when leaving your RON. If you have been seen, you will probably be attacked or ambushed within 300 meters.
                            212. Habits are easily formed around certain times of the day. For example, some teams always move into a RON site at 1830 or into a noon break position at exactly 1100 every day. If the enemy has been observing you, he will notice this and plan an ambush for you.


                            Hopefully you got something out of this post, but remember, I really don't care one way or another. Don't play at "prepping" or "survival" and tip toe around touchy-feely stuff. The reality of a world gone to shit will be worse than anything you have read about or seen in a movie because you will be living it everyday; don't candy coat it or you'll choke on it.

                            Long Hunter
                            RLTW!
                            Actually, I don't take it personal, I just consider the source. When I camp I don't like having the place looking like downtown Chicago.

                            As far as mentioning "camping and survival" in the same post, I really don't care what you think.

                            As far as my background goes...let's just say I don't feel I have anything to prove and that I don't have to come off as some sort of "Rambo" such as yourself.

                            You must have been out of breath after that post. lol

                            To be honest, how do I know you aren't someone that never served a day in his life and has just lived vicariously through the men and women who actually have served this country. Anyone can become familiar with military language and tactics.

                            You will have to do better then that to get me worked up my friend, I'm really good at keeping my cool under pressure you might say. ;)
                            Last edited by Snow Walker; 06-08-2011, 08:21 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh, I almost forgot...on a forum like this where you have a mixture of civilian and military I see no reason to try and build myself up acting like a SF trooper. I guess you could say I like talking on a more even keel.

                              Another reason I don't take your post personally is I've noticed other posts you've had in which you come off the same way. Someday your rather outbursting personality will be your undoing. You see...survival is more psychological then anything else or didn't they teach you that in the service? Keep calm and you will live to see another day.

                              There are other forums which are far more hardcore if this one doesn't meet your standards, or wouldn't they put up with your attitude there and see right through you? hmmmmmm

                              Comment

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