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Another Scenario - Group Member Has Gone Bent

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  • Another Scenario - Group Member Has Gone Bent

    Ed That Matters has posted another scenario that has decent discussion qualities and could be relevant for some ....

    "SCENARIO – One of your friends became a problem that could put at risk the lives of the entire group, including your family. Your friend won’t stop his reckless behavior and refuses to be thrown out of the group since he contributed to it and his wife and children have nowhere to go. He has lost it and now he is putting the entire group at risk, but no one has the heart to deal with this but you. You tried to have a serious conversation, but that still didn’t work. How would you handle this situation and why?"

  • #2
    I'd tell him we're going to give him a fair amount of supplies but he's going and until he gets a grip we best not see him or he'll be treated as a hostile. I'd tell his wife it is her choice if she wants to take their kids and go with him (again with provisions & assuming she and their kids aren't at issue too) OR she and her kids want to stay they are more than welcome to stay as part of the group so long as they abide by the rules. This could also partly depend on if she is of like mind and sees her husband as a danger.

    If the rest of the group wouldn't stand up and force resolving the issue, I'd have to seriously consider if I want to continue with these people. I might sit down with my wife and evaluate if I need to pull my family and our provisions from the group and go to another fall back because at that point I'd be thinking these people are not who I thought they are which would make me question my ability to trust them since they are willing to risk the groups safety.

    If all that fails or removing me and mine from the situation is impossible; if it's truly to the point his actions are threatening my family's safety or lives and he's endangering the lives of the group (even his own family); well then only option I might see would be to ask him to join me for a walk and he just wouldn't come back. Obviously this action itself would have severe fallout to deal with in the group and it would also put on me to be responsible for his family.
    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!


    • #3
      I have a gut reaction to this situation. But later I want to think about this and make an additional answer to it.

      If my group is traveling from one location to another, what possible actions that will be taken. Travel is very stressful, and a very serious situation with many dangers around you. You do not have the time to sit down with a council to make decisions!

      1. Reduce his stress by reassigning him a different job. Maybe he cannot shoot people or something.

      2. If he is endangering everyone in the group he has to go.
      family can still travel with us.

      If my group is at our retreat/farm possible actions include the following:

      1. Less stress and more time, will allow the full council to meet, and discuss the situation coming to a decision and enact it

      2. If immediate action is needed the leader has absolute authority including direct action and use of deadly force.


      • #4
        I know an herb to put in his dinner to keep him busier for a couple days.... :oP



        • #5
          X-Lax brownies for desert as well should keep him busy for a while.


          • #6
            I would have to ask why this person went over the edge? Has he been stable for a while, and now there is a sudden change? Has he been gradually getting worse? Have you exhausted all possibilities in bringing him back?

            I will throw a curve, and say you know this person has a mental disorder that requires maintenance medication. When they are off the meds they can be a problem. It is a close family member,part of your inner circle, immediate family. You know they cannot survive alone.

            I would probably have to leave the group, and strike out on my/our own, and do what we could with the affected member. No way I am leaving them behind.
            The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

            Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you are stupid, and make bad decisions.


            • #7
              you need to make a decision on the content of the scenario posed - current time (pre-SHTF) or post-SHTF ....

              I'm reading it myself as currently timed - group member is jeopardizing OPSEC - destroying/damaging preps - hazardous behavior with weapons - totally unreliable for any SHTF responsibilities ...


              • #8
                I would try everything I could think of as well as any ideas the group would have to correct his behavior. A major SHTF scenario will be stressful on everyone. With that being said, I won't tolerate anyone endangering my families lives. If his behavior can't be changed his breathing status can be. Taking any life is a last resort and it will have consequences within the group. More than just his family. It's not a great option but it is a necessary evil to keep the group alive and functioning.
                Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.


                • #9
                  As hard as it to say, sometimes banning or exiling a person may not be the best answer. The banned person can turn his efforts toward the group and/or leader(s) and become a terrorist against you forcing you to spend time and resources to eliminate him as a threat. Or he could simply sell you out to another group as a source of resources, including slavery and death for group members. If you can't bring yourself to kill him you must set up some sort jail or physical restrictions for him. This too will eat into your personal and resources as he would be a dead weight and possibly be "freed" by a family member who does not understand how much a threat he is.
                  Until put in that position i really don't know what I would do or suggest be done. Pure logic dictates death but the heart shrinks from that. RichFl has the right idea. Try everything else first. Second chance possible but there cannot be 4th, 5th and 6th chances. Somewhere between 3rd and 6th someone else could be hurt or die or killed because of his actions.


                  • #10
                    It may be that all groups need to have some way to restrain anyone that is causing a problem that would cause a problem to in danger the group. Maybe have a building that could be used like a jail or something. It would be hard to say until you are faced with that decision. But hope this is something that would never happen.


                    • #11
                      DOn't see how a jail could work, that requires people to watch them so takes away critical people power and on top of it you have an unproductive person consuming precious resources that others need to be productive.
                      I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Applejack View Post
                        It may be that all groups need to have some way to restrain anyone that is causing a problem that would cause a problem to in danger the group. Maybe have a building that could be used like a jail or something. It would be hard to say until you are faced with that decision. But hope this is something that would never happen.

                        could be bed restraints - initially post-SHTF going to be mental & emotional problems all over the place - would be extremely lucky in a large group if everyone handled the crisis with no problems - the group's med officer needs to be prepped up on the subject and some good pharms in the bag ....


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Illini Warrior View Post
                          the group's med officer needs to be prepped up on the subject and some good pharms in the bag ....
                          Bigger issue might be the lack of med's. So many people today are on some type of drug for some mental condition or another. I think it might even be more of an issue with many in the millennial generation. Many in that group can't seem to deal with any level of stress or discomfort in their life. When you're a generation that has issues due to to a "trigger" word, you've got big problems. But in any of the generations things will come to the surface, those people that today hide their addictions or issues be it drugs or alcohol will quickly have serious issues from withdrawals and that may also lend them to be extremely unbalanced and potentially violent.
                          I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!


                          • #14
                            It is just a shame that this country has come to a point that they need drugs and alcohol to cope these days. Don't know how it all came to this but it has. Our schools step in to the point that children can't learn how to handle their problems and in a lot of cases home situations are not what they should be. Now they go to school to learn how to be gay and lesbian. Young children are taught from early on and they grow up so confused they turn to drugs and alcohol.. Something really does need to change for the better. So we will be inclined to have to deal with someone in our groups that can't handle any SHTF situation. And as a result we will have to find ways to deal with these people short of taking someones life, I would try to find a way to get this type of person to come around and not be a problem but in someway to help the group. Maybe give that person a job that would not be stressful for him or her. But no guns or anything that they could hurt you or someone in your group. We will have to learn to ajust to what society has caused.


                            • #15
                              I have a different situation at our schools. Our area is low income, forestry workers for the most part, probably high on the government services lists..

                              But our school does help kids figure out their problems, usually because parents cannot /choose not to be involved in parenting their kids, and there are different strategies to help the K D's learn to deal with $#&(.

                              Not in one case has our school advocated homosexuality to kids. There was one child who has become transgender F2M, but that child left the school to become homeschooled before transformation started.

                              I am surprised there are not more kids in our school who do not do drugs , where's it is obvious that their parents are on stuff like crack and more. There is not one pregnant teen in our high school. We do however have a health center at the school where high schoolers over tge see if 16 can get birth control with parental permission.

                              Recently there was a mild mannered kid who seriously flipped out in class from pressures at home, but other than the general trouble makers, which I have come to believe is a high probability of mothers on crack while pregnant, and these kids have a brain glitch and social.disorders, not the same, but kinda like Asperger's in not being on the same page socially as 'normal' kids.

                              Society in general, through all of the ranks of socio- race- etc, have broken down since the 1970s. Within the last year highly combustible fuel has liberally been poured on to create even more of a rift.

                              I know areas and families which have not recovered from 2008-9. It is a revolving door, not unlike the First Nation areas I saw in Canada. People give up. Sometimes I wonder if it is not a planned excercise just like the Indian Residential Schools to break and destroy the First Nations. There are extreme similarly to both.