Help with no tresspassing signs

[brotherzoo]

My home state, Louisiana, is also a 'castle doctrine' state. To my knowledge though, Texas is the only state that allows defense of property (not self) with use of force, and I only read that describing the older gentleman (hero) who shot the two intruders who were robbing his neighbor's home - and he did state that they crossed into his yard as well.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hor...ng_controversy

I do also know that a man who booby trapped his home with a shotgun here in Louisiana and moved out of state, was extradited, charged, and convicted of manslaughter years later when a years old corpse of a known burglar who had been killed by the booby trap (12 gauge wired to back door) was discovered on the over grown property. Apparently he died and decomposed and was not found for quite some time.

I also know that any sign that shows foreknowledge of a dangerous situation created by the homeowner or premeditated intent to use lethal force will get you slam dunked at trial, which is why knowledgeable dog owners have "Dog in Yard" signs, instead of "Beware of Dog". Some homeowners insurance companies will even drop you for posting them. Same logic applies to "vigorous" no trespassing sings about being shot, or shot again, no matter how humorous they may seem to some...

If you check the NRA's ILA site and pull up your states gun laws, it also includes information on laws regarding self defense, defense of property, and use of lethal force.

[tommyboy4090]

Here in Florida we have something called castle doctrine. Which is the ability to protect your property, home, and under that your vehicle is considered part of your home. Works as long as you dont shoot them in back. Also if you have the right to be somewhere (legally) you have the right to defend yourself and you don't have to retreat. I believe it says you can meet force with force or use deadly force if necessary.

[Michael Patrick]

Granted, however there is a major distinction between "on your property" and "to protect property". Any kind of automated or spring trap that will trigger regardless whether you are presently home is a slippery slope. Even if you live in a jurisdiction where the use of force is allowed to protect yourself on your own property, that does not necessarily mean that you can outfit your property to protect itself. If you happen to be home when it goes off, then there at least is an argument that you were acting in defense of yourself. If it goes off when no one is around, that argument does not exist. I'm not aware of many states that allow the use of force to protect property.

Obviously draw your own conclusions and make your own decisions. Personally, I would never use more than signs.

[tommyboy4090]

Any kind of trap is a bad idea, as most states do not allow the use of deadly force to protect property. It's best to stick with the use of signs. And think about the effect of your idea... the idea is to keep trespassing intruders off your property. If you flatten their tires, how will they leave?

Using their feet. In Florida you can use deadly force on your property if you feel threatened.

[Michael Patrick]

Any kind of trap is a bad idea, as most states do not allow the use of deadly force to protect property. It's best to stick with the use of signs. And think about the effect of your idea... the idea is to keep trespassing intruders off your property. If you flatten their tires, how will they leave?

[tommyboy4090]

I wonder ,in the case of the guy who cops keep trespassing on his land, if he put nails or something across road that would flatten tires would be get introuble. I know here in Florida you can't "booby trap" your house, but i don't know about property or if that would be considered a "booby trap"

[Michael Patrick]

I understand. Some of these good ol' boy networks can be extremely frustrating to deal with. I'm not really sure how to deal with such issues other than extending your reach beyond the confines of the network. However, if you go over their head to higher authority, it may backfire and increase local harassment... Good luck.

[tbkbtk123]

IN MY OPINION, gotta cover my behind *L*, The police be they county or city,( I live in the county), are regarded by the state police in my area as keystone cops, and the officer that came on my property was a city cop!
You would think that they would realize that since I live in the county, they would send a county cop!
I have gone in and talked to the chief of police, DO THE WORDS BEATING YOUR HEAD AGAINST THE WLL MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU??
You have to realize that you are dealing with the "Good ol Boy" network around here. If you weren't raised here you are an outsider.
I really appricate knowing that I am not the only one that KNOWS the cops are not the law, they are just the prevayor of the law as determined by the courts!

[Michael Patrick]

There are countless jurors dismissed from jury duty for claiming that the police are "the law", and unfortunately, there are a number of officers who believe that as well. In actuality, the police have no authority. Authority lies in the courts. If the police are tresspassing without stated cause on your property, you may want to file a complaint, or even speak with the CO. Obviously its a tactical decision that needs to be made carefully, weighing your overall relationship with your local police department and their perceived reasonableness. The last thing you want to do is to provoke them and make the situation worse.

It sounds like they may just be trying the old intimidation game, playing on you being intimidated by the uniform. It's usually quite entertaining to cite the law to officers playing this game. They usually become highly confused and frustrated. It's unfortunate, but most police officers do not have a firm understanding of the law. I've never understood why a course in constitutional law is not required to carry a badge.

[tbkbtk123]

There was never a given reason for his presence on my property, other than,"I am the police." I told him I did not appricate him trespassing on my property and would appricate that it did not happen again.
I hope that he doesn't think that I am stupid enough to jump just because he is "The police" *L*

[Michael Patrick]

I'd be curious to know what their reasoning was. No tresspassing signs do in fact apply to the police, obviously in certain situations they will drive passed (lawfully or unlawfully)... however they would be required to state the reason.

[tbkbtk123]

I live on acreage with no tresspassing and private property signs and still the police drive right up my 1/4 mile drive, ( with a drive this long they cannot say that they were just turning around), for this or that reason.
I asked one of the officers if he was unable to read the signs at the bottom of the drive and he stated," I am the police" ( like that really means something to me) and got into his vehicle and left.

[tbkbtk123]

My suggestion would be for you to write down you ideas of the sign that you want and find someone that makes signs and have it made to you specs.
I have a friend that does signage and have had him make me several unique, eye catching signs.

[Michael Patrick]

I guess I should mention I'm a law student. The Fourth Amendment varies in its impact by state, but the general premise is that a no trespassing sign does in fact apply to state workers as well as private citizens. The Census actually trains its workers to respect them and just leave the materials in a bag hanging near the sign rather than pass it. Here in Tennessee, there was a recent case reversed by the criminal court of appeals where police drove onto the property, through an open gate with a visible no trespassing sign in response to air surveillance that established white 5 gallon buckets in the backyard. The police took the position that white 5 gallons buckets are probable cause to investigate possible marijuana growth. The homeowner was not home, but the babysitter called him at work. The police advised him that it was "in his best interest" to consent to a search of his property. He orally consented over the phone and left work to meet the police at his property. When he arrived, he was arrested and charged with manufacturing and possession of marijuana. He was convicted at trial, however that conviction was reversed on appeal. It all came down to the no trespassing sign: the court said the police were put on notice that the homeowner did not consent to any waiver of his Fourth Amendment rights. The court also rejected the claim of the buckets establishing probable cause. The state, of course argued that the homeowner consented to a search over the phone, but the court was not convinced as, again, due to the no trespassing sign, the police were already on notice that he did not consent. The police had unlawfully entered his property, and thus all evidence gained as result of the unlawful entry and unlawful search was inadmissible as a matter of law under the doctrine of the fruit of the poisonous tree.

Please remember that this is not legal advice as I am not an attorney, but the point is to research your local state law as state constitutions may offer more projections that the federal constitution.

[Legionnaire]

Personally I have this sign, in my garage of course. I live in a golf resort retirement/single family home PUD so I don't need the neighbors, who also are my members, getting the wrong idea.