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  • #16
    Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post

    thank you for the welcome!

    I Want to be 15 miles further at least from whatever road or trail I get dropped at. If I could find private property that would be awesome, but I’m not ruling anything out.

    as far as laws of the region, I honestly haven’t chosen a destination, just the Rockies, between 4-6000 ft. somewhere. I’ll gladly abide to any RnR.

    id like to build a shelter, small temporary shelters until I find good ground. Giving myself 2 weeks to scout a spot. I have a good bit of experience building out of the land. I actually got a chance to help a guy build an awesome old style cabin, that at a much smaller proportion, could be built without taking too much from the habitat.

    Jkep8969, Welcome to the site. As a retired wildlife biologist/Park Ranger and working out west for a number of years, you may have serious difficulty finding public land in the rocky mountains that is under 6000 ft in elevation. Not to mention the many different CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations) that you will need to comply with that Rangers will arrest or cite you for violations of. Most of the federal land in that region allows no building of any permanent or semi permanent structures. Please check the laws well for the area you choose.

    Just a thought for you that may work for your conditions, there are many mining claims for sell in the Rockies and many of these don't allow for permanent structures, but would work for what your wanting. I have seen them for sell for anywhere from $500 to $10,000 for the claim which can be several acres in the middle of no where and surrounded by public land that you could hunt and gather from.

    Hope this helps you some.

    Dale
    Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by dalewick View Post


      Jkep8969, Welcome to the site. As a retired wildlife biologist/Park Ranger and working out west for a number of years, you may have serious difficulty finding public land in the rocky mountains that is under 6000 ft in elevation. Not to mention the many different CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations) that you will need to comply with that Rangers will arrest or cite you for violations of. Most of the federal land in that region allows no building of any permanent or semi permanent structures. Please check the laws well for the area you choose.

      Just a thought for you that may work for your conditions, there are many mining claims for sell in the Rockies and many of these don't allow for permanent structures, but would work for what your wanting. I have seen them for sell for anywhere from $500 to $10,000 for the claim which can be several acres in the middle of no where and surrounded by public land that you could hunt and gather from.

      Hope this helps you some.

      Dale
      Thank you! Honestly you could help the most, because, like you said it’s going to be hard to find a spot that is applicable to my wants ha.

      I fully intend on following lowing all the laws I must. If you could point me in the direction of where I could find said rules and regs? I’d greatly appreciate it!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post

        Thank you! Honestly you could help the most, because, like you said it’s going to be hard to find a spot that is applicable to my wants ha.

        I fully intend on following lowing all the laws I must. If you could point me in the direction of where I could find said rules and regs? I’d greatly appreciate it!!
        You will have to get a NON-resident Hunting and Fishing License, and Non-resident Trapping License, which is generally restrictive and expensive.
        One day you eat the chicken.....next day the left-over chicken.....next five days you eat chicken feathers, head and feet.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Buggyout View Post
          A century and a half ago, men would pack big game with horses and mules. Even at that, camp was close by to smoke the meat and store it. American Indians hunted out from their camps, doing the same thing, bringing it back in.

          The Rockies are a hard place to live. Game wasn't frequent even back in the West. Now? It's even more infrequent. Also, the lack of sustainable plants is an issue. They aren't called the "Rockies" without reason. A much better suited wildland are the forests of Idaho. I would look at where Native Americans flourished, for instance, one of the richest and healthiest populations were on the Pacific Northwest coast. Mostly for the abundance of sea life, but also because the forests have excellent ecosystems.

          Learn from the past for the inevitable future.

          -Buggy
          this has been brought to my attention multiple times since I’ve begun this. Each time I ask about Oregon, or even a reservation. I myself have a good bit of Cherokee in me and have always been fascinated by the ways of old. Aside from a couple modern tools I’d like to try and flourish as our early ancestors and settlers did.

          As as far as Idaho, what area would you suggest for looking over?

          and thank you!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post

            Thank you! Honestly you could help the most, because, like you said it’s going to be hard to find a spot that is applicable to my wants ha.

            I fully intend on following lowing all the laws I must. If you could point me in the direction of where I could find said rules and regs? I’d greatly appreciate it!!
            When you have an idea of where, that gets easier. Just look up the agency that controls that land (USFS, BLM, etc.) and they will have a listing of there properties and with that will be a section of general CFR's as well as any property specific rules and regs.

            One other bit of information you might want to keep in mind for certain areas in the Rockies, is the presence of Grizzly Bears for starters, moose second and wolves, black bears and mountain lions. When alone, these can be a major hazard to your health. Have you considered maybe starting off smaller in your plans. To get an idea of what a year will cost you. Like maybe doing 3 months in the summer/fall in the back country or even in a wilderness area (No roads).

            You might even want to consider someplace like Gunnison National Forest in Colorado at first
            to work on your skills and see how you like it. Even there you have to remain alert. Last fall my brother and I were stalked by a cougar and her two grown cubs while elk hunting. We were calling and she heard a dinner bell. A lone individual can carry there tent and constantly move in the back country while practicing there skills.

            I'll gladly help you what I can.

            Dale
            Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by dalewick View Post

              When you have an idea of where, that gets easier. Just look up the agency that controls that land (USFS, BLM, etc.) and they will have a listing of there properties and with that will be a section of general CFR's as well as any property specific rules and regs.

              One other bit of information you might want to keep in mind for certain areas in the Rockies, is the presence of Grizzly Bears for starters, moose second and wolves, black bears and mountain lions. When alone, these can be a major hazard to your health. Have you considered maybe starting off smaller in your plans. To get an idea of what a year will cost you. Like maybe doing 3 months in the summer/fall in the back country or even in a wilderness area (No roads).

              You might even want to consider someplace like Gunnison National Forest in Colorado at first
              to work on your skills and see how you like it. Even there you have to remain alert. Last fall my brother and I were stalked by a cougar and her two grown cubs while elk hunting. We were calling and she heard a dinner bell. A lone individual can carry there tent and constantly move in the back country while practicing there skills.

              I'll gladly help you what I can.

              Dale
              Truly appreciate the feedback!

              what are those plots of land you mentioned?

              and I’m very aware I won’t be the top predator out there. Another issue is no firearms, I’ll have only blades and I’ve learned several different types of Spears. Also read an interesting piece on a fallback shelter, something along the lines of a defense bunker. Only useful near my actual camp obviously.

              and would you have a suggestion on somewhere like you are talking about? Somewhere similar to the conditions I’ll see?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post
                I ask for location because I have many options, I’m curious where a seasoned vet would send a greeny for his first attempt at living in and off of the land. I’m currently in Arizona and there is a 14 day rule in our parks. Aside from a month out in the woods of West Michigan I’ve only successfully spent 2 weeks out far enough to homestead.
                If your opening post, you state you want to go "off grid"... I am off grid and I am not more than 4 miles out of our little community. You can be off grid in the city. Home is where you hang your hat. So can being 'off grid".

                So are you wanting to go 'off grid' or boondock? You can live off the land in any place on this earth. What is the real question is... how much are you willing to adapt? How much are you willing to change your current lifestyle and make into your new lifestyle? There are people's who live in the Arctic, there are people who live at 10,000 feet above sea level, there are people who live at the coast, in deserts, etc. Each adapted. Many died in learning or not learning how to adapt.

                From your statement of the 14-day rule, it sounds like you want to boondock, which may cause you to be nomadic. If you are a nomad, you will have to be a hunter/gatherer, rather than a homesteader/farmer type.


                Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post
                All I know is at this point idea is to head for northern rockies, between 4-6000’, for at least a year. And doing so next spring with only a 150 pound pack.
                Have you been to the Rockies even in the summertime? Dead of summer days you can be burning to death and freezing then your bum off at night. You may have 90 days or less of 'summer'. I lived in Northern BC, which is also Zone 2, and I could have snow in July, and the first Winter snows September 27th. I have read it takes 100 traps on a trapline to feed a man well. I have friends who were trappers in the Yukon and they had multiple line shacks well stocked with supplies in late summer for the winter months. I also had friends in remote areas who had brought vast amount of supplies in before snow hit, and then there were plane drops every other month.

                Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post
                Per my post, my skills are basic. I can hunt and forage, as well as build adequate shelter. My goal is to take my weekend hunter tracker skills to their full extent.
                Honestly.. move to a small and not necessarily remote community and be on the fringe of it, and try your skills there for awhile, be offgrid, dont have a TV or radio, have a manual can opener.. even for a few years. My skills are not basic, and I know I would be a fool to go off and live remotely as you are speaking of. You can accomplish the same thing, but with a backup plan living closer to people, and do interact with them so you do not go crazy. I have seen that up in the bush too. Its not pretty and often has bad endings.

                When you live remote like you are speaking of... even when I lived on my 40 acre farm in the bush in BC, I knew each time I walked out that door, I had to be conscientiously responsible for each step I took. One slip on glare ice and break my leg, it might be 2 weeks before friends found me dead from exposure. I have had frostbite and hypothermia before. It is not fun feeling like a 22lb rock is attached to your face instead of a nose which does not feel like your own for 2 weeks and being sensitive to hot/cold for 2 years more. I got hypothermia in 15 minutes time when the temperature dropped 15 degrees in 15 minutes time. I have slept outside at -48C, so I know how to stay warm and such.. the hypothermia thing was in daylight and just one stupid mistake. I was not even a Cheechako, having lived up there for 7 years. Most Cheechako's don't even make it a full winter.

                How adequate of a shelter can you build? Out of what materials? Will it be water and wind proof? Don't forget rodents (and porcupines). Got food in there? I have seen Griz pull off doors to get to bubble gum. Will you have enough heat? Water without getting Beaver Fever?




                Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post
                i can agree there is a lot I need to learn and I would like to find books over websites. The only electronics I’ll have are a gps (only for marking not traversing), sat phone, and solar charger.

                again, thank you all for the input!


                Books.. ohhh... there are lots of books. Read and read and read and read and read..... but if you can find a mentor that would be best. Learn all you can from numerous sources. Don't just read... DO! DO DAILY!! And a skilled lifestyle you are seeming to speak of, is not going to be a quick accomplishment... it WILL take years. Years of daily doing it. My favorite example of not being prepared and having 'the dream' is McCandless. And it annoys me to no end that there are so many people who want to follow in his footsteps..... literally, with park rangers having to repeatedly going to THE BUS to go haul their lost, cold, wet, and hungry rear ends back to civilization.

                Look more towards Dick Proenneke if you need to go this route. There are books and films/documentaries about him. However, look at Proenneke's background. He also did what I said to do about living at the fringe of civilization while honing your skills. Proenneke did for 18+ years before attempting his 'retirement' to the Alaska interior.

                Go for your dreams, but also be realistic about them... and push yourself without killing yourself.

                Cedar
                Last edited by Cedar; 06-04-2018, 06:25 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  OK i'll give you my long welcome speech.

                  FIRST of all you have to decide on what you are preparing for!

                  1. A survival situation can last for 30 days or less. You will not have time to pack up or store items ahead of time. Think a major storm front is coming and you are told to get out of the way.

                  2. A prepping situation involves long term life style changes that will last for months to years. Think of the economy collapses, or an major EMP hits and all electrical is just gone.

                  Each requires equipment, training, experience and luck to survive. The more you prepare yourself that those around you the longer you will live.

                  The best way is to find people like you; who can work together. That way every one brings their experiences, training, and equipment.

                  Here is some basic training and skill sets you need:

                  Medical, Hygiene, and Water Treatment:

                  The Red Cross has many courses available from basic first aid, to advance life saving.

                  For the area(s) you want to be in Water Treatment is important you need to know how to filter your water and treat it for diseases, heavy metals, even radiation.

                  The number one cause after a disaster of death other then exposure, involves hygiene - personal, cooking, and water treatment.

                  SHELTER

                  The rule of thumb for survival and preppers is the ways of three

                  Dead three minutes without oxygen
                  Dead three hours without shelter due to exposure.
                  Dead three days without water
                  Dead thirty days without food

                  FOOD

                  Yes you need food - more then you eat at home because you will be moving, setting up camp/retreat, hunting/fishing, and farming. for an active lifestyle, you need well over 4000 calories per day! That is a lot of food. Not to mention who is going to prepare it?

                  Communication

                  One of the major problems disasters have is the lack of news and a way to get information out to survivors. When we had IRMA hit us in Florida we lost power so no TV, and most radio left the air. By the 4th hour we had 1 radio station still on. We could not talk to anyone even for days after the storm passed (High Water). No CB, Little HAM Radio, No phones, no cells, no internet. So even if you need a first responder they were not available.

                  Security

                  Not going to talk about weapons here. You become responsible for your own safety during a disaster. There will be no one there to hold your hand, call a time out, or provide assistance as you expect in a normal situation.

                  Why all the information?

                  Well my group started in 1993 and as of five years ago we bought a 1600 acre farm where we are building a true off the grid sustainable life style. We have expanded from originally 6 members of a hunting club to over 25 families now. We pooled our funds starting small and build up our future.

                  Our group started seeking skill sets that we did not have including a farm manger, doctor and nurse, live stock hands and one black smith which I'm teaching to my grad kids now. Most of us have military backgrounds so security is no problem

                  Ever since I got my wife to let me buy a M-60A1 tank. Parts are a bitch but I expect the first time a gang shows up they will be on their way very fast..

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jkep8969 View Post

                    Truly appreciate the feedback!

                    what are those plots of land you mentioned?

                    and I’m very aware I won’t be the top predator out there. Another issue is no firearms, I’ll have only blades and I’ve learned several different types of Spears. Also read an interesting piece on a fallback shelter, something along the lines of a defense bunker. Only useful near my actual camp obviously.

                    and would you have a suggestion on somewhere like you are talking about? Somewhere similar to the conditions I’ll see?
                    If you can't or won't have a firearm at the minimum have a can of bear spray. For you I would recommend Colorado. Specifically Gunnison National Forest. Lots of beaver flows and lots of trout. Just a thought.

                    Dale
                    Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

                    Comment

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