what are your experiences with S30V steel?

[emergprep]

Having been bitten twice by Gerber I am looking elsewhere for my next purchase. I have never owned a knife with S30V steel and several of the serious knife builders aqre using this pretty exclusively. I have heard great and worrisome stories of blades chipping or just outright shattering becaude of poor hardening. What are your experiences?

[Snow Walker]

As far as knives go I prefer carbon steel blades. I have seen three stainless blades chip and/or snap in cold weather while being used as a survival blade should be able to be used. You will here all kinds of advice, but I just wanted to tell you what I have come across first hand.

To be fair I don't know the exact type of stainless the knives were, but 2 were Bucks, 1 was a Gerber

Find a knife maker who knows his sh** and see what he has to say. If you want stainless so be it, but find the right type of stainless for your usage.

[Snow Walker]

CPM S30V

The following information has been adapted from the Crucible Materials Corporation Web site and Data Sheets for CPM S30V. It provides some technical comparisons to other common high-end knife steels and can explain, to a degree, why CPM S30V excels.

CPM S30V is a martensitic stainless steel designed to offer the best combination of toughness, wear resistance and corrosion resistance. Its chemistry has been specially balanced to promote the formation of vanadium carbides which are harder and more effective than chromium carbides in providing wear resistance. CPM S30V offers substantial improvement in toughness over other high hardness steels such as 440C and D2, and its corrosion resistance is equal to or better than 440C in various environments.

The process of producing CPM (Crucible Particle Metallurgy) steels involves gas atomization of pre-alloyed molten steel to form powder. This powder is then screened and then isostatically compressed into 100% dense compacts. The CPM process produces steels withe no alloy segregation and extremely uniform carbide distribution characterized by superior dimensional stability, grindability, and toughness compared to steels produced by conventional processes.

CPM S30V AISI 440C

CPM S30V is made by the proprietary CPM process, which results in a homogeneous, finegrained microstructure with uniformly dispersed carbides, as can be seen in the magnified photo above. The composition of S30V is balanced to promote the formation of vanadium-rich (MC type) carbides which provide better wear resistance than chromium-rich (M7C3 type) carbides.
Conventional AISI 440C is a martensitic stainless steel containing chromium (M7C3 type) carbides for wear resistance. This typical 440C sheet microstructure reveals carbide banding which reduces toughness and, depending on the severity and location, can cause chipping at a very fine edge.



Carbide Type and Volume
Vanadium-Rich Chromium-Rich Total
CPM S30V 4% 10.5% 14.5%
440C 0% 12.0% 12.0%
154 CM 0% 17.5% 17.5%


Crucible CPM S30V Alloy Composition
Carbon 1.45%
Chromium 14.00%
Vanadium 4.00%
Molybdenum 2.00%


Toughness (Transverse Charpy C-notch Testing) Grade Impact Energy
CPM S30V 10.0 ft. lbs.
440C 2.5 ft. lbs.
154CM 2.5 ft. lbs.


Although the longitudinal toughness for all three of these grades is about 25-28 ft. lbs., the transverse toughness of CPM S30V is four times greater than that of 440C or 154CM. These higher transverse toughness results indicate that CPM S30V is much more resistant to chipping and breaking in applications which may encounter side loading. In knifemaking, its higher transverse toughness makes CPM S30V especially good for bigger blades.

Edge Retention (CATRA Testing Relative to 440C) Grade %
CPM S30V 145
440C 100
154CM 120


The CATRA (Cutlery & Allied Trades Research Association) test machine performs a standard cutting operation and measures the number of silica impregnated cards which are cut (TCC = total cards cut). It is considered a measure of relative wear resistance.

Corrosion Resistance Average Pitting Potential measurements (below) from Polarization Curves run in 5% NaCl (Sodium Chloride) Solution at Room Temperature: (Higher voltage pitting potential indicates better corrosion resistance.)



Note: Properties shown are typical values. Normal variations in chemistry, size and heat treat conditions may cause deviations from these values.

[Stitch]

Most of my custom knives are made from S30V. I really like how long the edge stays sharp.

[Stitch]

Most of the Bucks and Gerbers are made from 420J2 which is a low end stainless.

[emergprep]

Quite a few of the new Bucks are made from S30V. I could find only one Gerber that uses S30V and I didn't care for the design in general. Right now I just wouldn't buy a Gerber anyway, been bitten twice recently.

[Snow Walker]

You know, knives are like anything else everyone has their favorites. I prefer carbon steel as mentioned earlier, but that's just my opinion. Alot of people have stainless knives and love them. Those blades chipping/snapping that I was talking about were in extremely cold weather being used to process wood. So think about what you will be using it for above all.

I think alot of people like myself get fustrated buying things because there is no such thing as the perfect backpack, knife, flashlight, compass, boots etc...if I were you I would contact some knife makers and have a custom made if you can afford that. If not keep doing some research and take your time. I'm not trying to talk you out of stainless, but I think you will find more choices out there in carbon steel blades. Just make sure you look for a quality company and do some research on their past.

Your doing the right thing by posting your questions, that tells me you just don't go out and buy anything. If you need any more advice don't be afraid to ask. I think Stitch probably has more knife experience then me and he also favors stainless blades. If you want to check into carbon steel blades that would be more up my alley.

You can't believe everything you see on youtube, but there are alot of good knife reviews out there.

Hope some of this is helping you out!

[PT945]

Good info . Thanks

[emergprep]

Agreed on all points! More questions means better info. I am looking at having a custom made. I was looking at Chris Reeves knives, but the designs aren't really appropriate. Excellant quality, just not my style. I love the stuff Stitch has been posting lately. I have just heard alot about some makers noyt tempering this steel well and the blade chips alot or cracks. I have no problem with carbon steel blades, they are incredibly durable and easy to sharpen.
The fact is that I don't have a huge budget to invest in this knife and I don't like alot of what I will call "mainstream" designs. I have a very utilitarian view of knives in general, but I can appreciate beautiful customs too. I just on the fence between buying 20 $10.00 knives or 1 $200.00 knife. All info has been greatly appreciated and very helpful. Thanks again to all!

[Snow Walker]

Agreed on all points! More questions means better info. I am looking at having a custom made. I was looking at Chris Reeves knives, but the designs aren't really appropriate. Excellant quality, just not my style. I love the stuff Stitch has been posting lately. I have just heard alot about some makers noyt tempering this steel well and the blade chips alot or cracks. I have no problem with carbon steel blades, they are incredibly durable and easy to sharpen.
The fact is that I don't have a huge budget to invest in this knife and I don't like alot of what I will call "mainstream" designs. I have a very utilitarian view of knives in general, but I can appreciate beautiful customs too. I just on the fence between buying 20 $10.00 knives or 1 $200.00 knife. All info has been greatly appreciated and very helpful. Thanks again to all!

Check into these knives and tell me what you think of the designs, most are carbon steel though. sugarcreekknives.com

The guy that is making those knives for Stitch does have a nice design in my opinion also.

[emergprep]

Thanks for the tip to Sugar Creek! This is my kind of knife maker! Great simplistic designs and VERY reasonable on price. I could see owning a French Trader or bushcrafter. I love the Jason Stout knives, but he's alittle out of my price range. I think I will be ordering one of the Sugar Creeks soon. Any idea what the turn around time is for this company?