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  • Two things worth noting

    As a police officer I have continuing education every year mandated by the State of NC. In one section called "Legal Updates" I noted that they are giving law enforcement more ability to violate forth amendment rights. The laws that permit us searching your vehicle and or home and stopping your vehicle are getting more lax. The courts are accepting questionalble practices as being legitimate actions for law enforcement. I expect this to get worse next year. Another item of interest is that here in our little area I work with a cadre of Green Beret out of Ft. Bragg, NC in the training of their recruits for special forces. They use our little town as a foriegn country called Pine Land. They conduct scenarios and exercises to train their men in how to deal with everyday folks and the situations that might come up. It is a two edged sword in that they are teaching them how to act with authorities in a different country but they are also teaching them how to handle anti-government (or people they percieve as such) in this country. One of the instructors kind of let that slip today at lunch time. Hmmmm...now what could they be preparing for? They use me to teach their troops how to act if being interrogated by local authorities and to create situations where a moral judgement is needed as to if they should lie or give somebody up, etc. It's interesting to watch in your own backyard so to speak. Thought you might like this info. I believe that if you search "Robin Sage" on the net, it may give you a little info.
    bbc
    Last edited by beebopcop; 12-13-2008, 10:57 AM. Reason: spelling
    The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

  • #2
    very familiar with sage and pineland ;)

    Appreciate the updates and yeah I have seen and heard about the laxed laws.. It's kind of scary that the things this country was founded on are being seen or viewed in a laxed manor, why does .gov see us who fund and support .gov as the enemy? Just doesnt make much sense to me
    WHAT IF THE AMERICA YOU KNEW, WAS ABOUT TO CHANGE?

    The best thing you can do to support the site is pass it on to your friends and fav sites like other forums, facebook, twitter etc. Let people know about us! :)

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    • #3
      Ahh the days of seeing the "Sage" folks running around:D

      Kinda spooky BBC, I think we are living under the illusion of a Republic anymore. While we were sleeping they took away our liberties :(
      73

      later,
      ZA

      Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to
      beat you to death with it because it is empty.

      The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

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      • #4
        I think our situation is getting worse at a faster pace each week. Also this Wall Street Bailout crap that it's none of out business where the money went really bothers me. That much money would buy one hell of a private army. The older I get the less I trust these Bast***s.
        Mike

        "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow the fields of those who don't."-Thomas Jefferson

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        • #5
          It appears that all it takes for statutes and case law to be written is one favorable ruling or an appeal followed by a favorable ruling. Often all it takes is one judge setting a precedent and our rights come under attack. I have heard and seen with my own eyes police officers stop a car for touching the left or right white line on the road and tell the driver that he can smell "pot" (even if they don't) and search the car, often finding nothing. There are more loopholes for an officer violating the constitution than most realize. Most of the time, especially if there are no witnesses, when the cases come to court the judge will rule in favor of the officer. "By Definition" of course there is no violation of rights. But by the base line of The Constitution there are many violations already in existence IMHO. All the things you mentioned, consent searches, etc, are certainly legal but my point is that the bar is continually lowering and our rights are disappearing
          The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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          • #6
            Yeah, everyone has pretty much hit the nail on the head here. The laws already exist and we have allowed them to be put in place such that literally if you pulled your vehicle out of your driveway any LEO from most any agency could have technically an excuse to pull you over. Many of the laws I feel were designed for the sole purpose of providing LE with an excuse which I both understand, yet disagree with.

            The list is prob 500 pages of reasons you could be pulled over that you could never imagine, from the noise level of your stereo (I believe in some places if you roll down your window while your radio is playing and it can be heard 15 feet away then it's a noise violation - well you can hear two people talking from 50 feet away lol) to your tint on your vehicle, to failure to signal from desginated turning lanes, down to all it takes is for you to swerve once or your veihcle to track to one side to raise intoxication suspicions)

            Regardless, they are there for a reason, and maybe 2 reasons including a hidden agenda.

            This is such a tiny example of how we as a society have slept while our rights that this country was founded on were ripped away from us, and even LEO's themselves have had these very same rights taken away from them. While they may have some leeway in their own town or county, outside their area they face 80% (say 20% for professional courtesy) of subjectiveness that we do also, so while many probably appreciate the ability to check out anyone they may WANT to check out, in the back of their minds they know they have lost their own rights as well, right beebop?
            WHAT IF THE AMERICA YOU KNEW, WAS ABOUT TO CHANGE?

            The best thing you can do to support the site is pass it on to your friends and fav sites like other forums, facebook, twitter etc. Let people know about us! :)

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            • #7
              Very true. Our rights have been violated to a point that my wife and I took a case to court over it. The violators, who were deputies did not get what they deserved. None of them are in law enforcement any longer but to me it should have been worse. But let me tell you, when you are treated like a criminal in your own home it has a lasting effect and you become all the more aware of the rights of others.
              The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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              • #8
                Here's the interesting question... wonder if you would feel exactly the same and be aware of civilians rights being stripped and abused if you had not seen it first hand on the other end/side of things..
                WHAT IF THE AMERICA YOU KNEW, WAS ABOUT TO CHANGE?

                The best thing you can do to support the site is pass it on to your friends and fav sites like other forums, facebook, twitter etc. Let people know about us! :)

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                • #9
                  Thats a good question Diesel. I'm certain that I would not be "as" aware as I am now. You kind of get use to pulling for the team you are playing on if you know what I mean. I know that I have violated rights in the past, nothing major, but a violation is a violation.
                  The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                  • #10
                    BeeBopCop,

                    All of this is disheartening, but I have seen similar things coming down the pike for years.

                    Once, in the early Nineties, in Lincolnton, I remember reading of some kind of cultural exchange, in which Russian Police were doing routine police work in the City. I hope that they were schooled on the U.S. Bill of Rights before they were allowed to do anything short of fetch coffee and donuts in the office.

                    Once, in Charlotte, NC, about 1998, the U.S. Military was--without notice-- doing manouvers in inhabited areas. Heliocopters were flying low in neighborhoods and soldiers were clad Ninja-style and scaring the Hell out of people. If some uninformed citizen had shot at one of the heliocopters or troops, it would have been a dangerous situation all around for everyone.

                    When I was a cab driver one Summer, I had a fare that was two Finnish fellows that reminded me of Steve Martin and Dan Ackroyd playing the "Two Wild and Crazy Guys". Anywho, the fellows openly stated that they were United Nations Peacekeepers (the "Blue Helmets") doing manouvers in the United States. If it was my cab service, I would have discretely called the local police on them to see if there were any reports of missing children or livestock in the area where these two lived. U.N. Blue Helmets are a notoriously vicious lot.

                    But anyway, getting on to local and State law enforcement, it's getting to a point that it's no longer a welcome career for freedom-loving Americans. If I were involved with law enforcement, I would be trying to line up some second career options that use transferrable skills, yet don't require that one violate citizen's individual rights.

                    There are possibilities such as private investigations, martial arts instructor, gunsmithing, or even private security for industry and celebrities. Or, if there's another passion or hobby totally unrelated to law enforcement that you can make money with, pursue it part-time until you can go for it full-time.

                    Me, I'd much rather be Bill Dance or Virgil Ward hosting an outdoor fishing and hunting program than those doomed men that stood trial in Nuremberg post-World War II. The former have no cares and the latter had no excuse. And a bad day of fishing is better than a good day in a dictatorship.
                    Last edited by TheUnboundOne; 12-14-2008, 08:52 AM.
                    "Apocalypse is by no means inevitable." --Jim Rice.

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                    • #11
                      Well said UBO. This job certainly has it's drawbacks and it's advantages. Just this morning I've had a "man with a gun" call. I arrived and got out with my gun in hand, patted the guy down, and got his side of the story. It turned out to be nothing, but it didn't have to turn out that way. Yesterday, I had a street thug threaten to come to my house to "take care of business". This idiot hasn't shown up yet and I hope he doesn't because I would have no choice but to terminate him. Why do I keep this job? Because of the advantages it offers me now and what it will offer me for a little while when TSHTF. Also, I get to share my values with other cops when they are out of line, and in this small town, sometimes I really get to make a difference. One other thing you are certainly right about and that is that people are really getting a bad taste in their mouthes where officers are concerned. There are some bad officers out there that hurt us all and, of course, the news always reports when one of us screws up. You will never hear about an officer showing restraint when he/she could have shot or hurt someone and they didn't, but it happens everyday in places like Charlotte or Atlanta and it happens often in my little town. OK, getting off my soapbox now.
                      BBC
                      The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                      • #12
                        Bug_out
                        Currently I work for a small department and I love it. We have a Chief, Sergeant (me), 3 full time officers and four part time officers. We work two man shifts during the day because the Chief is on duty and he is the second man. At night and weekends we work one man shifts which get a little hairy at times without backup. The county officers will help us when they can. As far as the rest of your post it is well said. Sadly there are too many young officers out there that abuse their power on a regular basis and will do about anything to make their charges stick. We had one here (we are a man short right now) and his deeds finally caught up with him. We let him go 3 weeks ago and because of his rep, no one will hire him. We also have a county deputy (was) out on $50 thousand bail and facing prison because he was letting women work on their fines and other charges through sexual favors. I agree with everything that you said but I trully believe that our constitutional rights are sifting away as we speak and as law enforcement officers we are caught in the middle at times. At least, for right now, we still have our discretionary powers. Right? If you are still doing this be careful brother.
                        BBC
                        The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the nice words. I too use to work for the county. The politics are rough at that level and I use to hate having to serve papers everyday but it was part of the job. LMAO about the Chargers. The guy that we fired wanted a Charger next year and I told the Chief, heck its two miles from one end of town to the other why do we need a Charger? The thing is that Dodge is selling the things so cheap to law enforcement that you can't hardly pass it up. Personally I drive a 2006 Ford Explored and I like it because of all the metal around me.
                          The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                          • #14
                            Man, that PD sucks, I'm surprised that you are not serving papers there. The last Sheriff that we had went power mad near the end and it lost him the election. He stated on several occasions that he was God of the county. He had the SO top heavy as well with brass. He was a horrible judge of character and was filling the office with people of questionable character on a regular basis. One of the captains attempted suicide over a broken marriage and it landed him in the psyche ward for about a week. The sheriff covered it up and threatened everyone's job if they talked. There was a threatening memo in our boxes about twice a week. The place was a mad house. The new sheriff is a retired state trooper and his chief deputy is also a retired trooper. They are running a very tight ship and had to let a lot of people go when they got there. They have brought in some highly respected people and it's a good SO now. Oh, the old sheriff fired people so often that other PDs would call and ask who had been let go so that they could hire them if they were decent. Also, often he would hire the same ones back. He did this so often that when he would fire one the secretary would not send the paperwork to Raliegh for several months because the sheriff would hire them back so often. I'm glad that administation is gone.
                            bbc
                            The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                            • #15
                              beebopcop,

                              You must be just down the road from me. I live in Lee County. I heard that Robin Sage is extending there reach this year.

                              Dave

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