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  • #16
    hudson69 wrote "Personally I like the Phoenix Arms HP22 (with the 3" barrel) for in-town outdoor activities or when I am wearing shorts or light clothing due to heat or a special event, "


    LOL.... I just picked one of those up off of Gunbroker! Got the 5" as well as the 3" with the extended mag. I read good reviews concerning accuracy and reliability, with the only detraction being the funky safeties. A little dremel work should cure that though. For $150.00 I thought it would be worth the risk.:D
    The 12ga.... It's not just for rabbits anymore.

    Comment


    • #17
      I purchased one and a lot of accuracy issues. I prefer the ruger 22/45 or the mark III. Been around for ever...proven.
      bbc
      The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by beebopcop View Post
        I purchased one and a lot of accuracy issues. I prefer the ruger 22/45 or the mark III. Been around for ever...proven.
        bbc

        That is NOT what I wanted to hear!!!!! :eek:
        I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, so I hope I have better luck. I've always Loved the Rugers, A friend of mine has one that has a trigger job that sends rounds down range almost telepathically. By far the most accurate handgun that I have ever shot. Just couldn't budget in the cost for one right now.
        The 12ga.... It's not just for rabbits anymore.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by slowz1k View Post
          That is NOT what I wanted to hear!!!!! :eek:
          I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, so I hope I have better luck. I've always Loved the Rugers, A friend of mine has one that has a trigger job that sends rounds down range almost telepathically. By far the most accurate handgun that I have ever shot. Just couldn't budget in the cost for one right now.
          After about 200 rounds I have had no malfunctions and can put all ten round in the head (with either barrel) at 15 yards; haven't really tried anything further out though I have to admit. Still liking the HP22 but I am on a fairly tight budget as well so a Ruger is out (for right now anyway).

          Comment


          • #20
            I look at everything pragmatically. In doing so, I make the assumption that if it can go wrong, it will go wrong.
            When it comes to weapons, the one you have on you, will be more important than the one you have at your house. Most gun owners have zombie killers of one nature or another stashed away, which is all well and good, but what happens if you get caught out in a SHTF scenario?
            The weapon you have on you, may be all you get until you can reach another.

            The SP101 is a fine weapon, but in my eyes, a little more firepower is needed to cover more bases. 6 rounds is not what I consider firepower.

            All of the following is considered to be a pistol, as for this purpose, it's assumed it needs to be something you can have with or very nearby you 24/7.
            My criteria is as follows:
            1. Tough as nails. If I can't drop it twenty feet, or pick it up and shoot it after it hitting the concrete at 60mph, or stash it in a box of rocks and mud and dust it off coming up shooting, it's not tough enough.
            2. Must be able to feed and shoot anything in it's caliber. For semi auto's, it must be able to shoot everything from target loads, to SMG loads.
            3. Must be common parts, if I find one in the hands of the dead, I must be able to interchange parts without special fitting or otherwise requiring a machine shop and hours of screwing around to make it go bang.
            4. Must be able to hit a 4" circle at 10 yards minimum. Preferably be able to hit the same at 25 yards, and a man sized target at 100.
            5. Must be able to get reliable magazines of 20 or better rounds.

            With the gun identified, then it goes to cartridge.
            1. Must be common. A 454 casull is a good bore cartridge, but could you pick some of those rounds up off a dead bad guy? More than likely not.
            2. Can it drop a man with a head shot? How about a body shot?
            3. Must be a current world military round, as you never know who it is you may be facing. Not to mention letting the military of the world do your R&D for you, as well as creating a production base and reams of surplus.

            My educational background includes metallurgy, and welding engineering. My prof. for metallurgy was a like minded individual who was contracted by JSSA during the M9 and M10 trials.

            Through him, I was able to lay my hands on the R&D reports, performance reports, and the programs general reports. Some of which he wrote.

            To make a long story short, I was convinced after reading it, that there is merit in a severe regime of testing before settling on the goto pistol weapons system. I was also convinced that sparing money was a fools errand, and basically amounted to going cheap on life insurance, or buying retread tires for a sports car.

            The cartridge was a no brainer, as most of the military's of the world had settled on the 9mm. Which in SMG or +P or better does do an acceptable job. I have zombie killers in 45acp/44mag/etc but for the one stop shop per the intent of this thread, and my intent at the time, it was the 9mm. I am not party to hague, and with proper bullet/velocity combination, the 9mm can get the job done.

            I went through 12 manufactures of pistols before settling on one.
            S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Browning, Colt, Glock, IMI/magnum research, H&K, Sig, Berreta, CZ (as imported by interarms at the time), and towards the last EAA.

            Over the course of 6 years, I had obtained these firearms, or solid test data, or both.
            All of the M9/M10 trial participants, I took the previously supplied data.
            To make a long story short, after 8K worth of guns, and the same amount of ammo, and 15K spent in lab metallurgical testing in which I dissected both the failures and successes, The Glock 17, Ruger P85, Sig 228, and IMI baby eagle (originally imported as the Jericho, but the same pistol in every substantial way)
            Sig was dropped after a KB with SMG ammo. IMI survived all test, but parts were found to be hand fitted in several cases, and was dropped for that reason. Ruger was dropped for the same reason. Three of the final 4 would go for thousands of rounds (and did) of firing anything, and surviving every torture test I could devise.

            When it was all said and done, the Glock 17 came out on top for the sole reason of parts interchangability. 6 years and all the money I could throw at it went into this effort.

            Word of warning: do not fire lead bullets unless it's an emergency through any hexagonal rifled pistol. The glock could fire it in a stick, which is the only reason it survived the test, but that rifling type does lead up fast. If you want to delead a barrel in a hurry, keep a small vial of mercury and two cork plugs. Mercury will rapidily dissolve lead.

            With that said, Every BOB I have, has a G17 in it with 6 30 round sticks, and 3 17+2 mags. They lead off and alternate +P+ LE federal hi-shocks, IMI SMG, +P+ Speer gold dots.
            It's also what I carry day to day. I've personally tested it, shot thousands of rounds through my original glock, (85K at last count), and would have no qualms about picking it up with a need to depend on it.

            As a caveate, I've been hearing of problem with the generation 3 glocks, but have yet to have the one I bought to test it manifest any of the reported problems.

            My opinion and logic behind it on the subject.

            Comment


            • #21
              The best gun in the world....

              I personally would pick up the AR-15 with an ACOG scope and a suppressor. It is a smaller calibur ammunition (.223 or 5.56, depending on whether you hunt or are military) but its high muzzle velocity is the bonus. When the round makes impact, the front slows down, but the back end is still carrying momentum, so it comes end over end on itself and the round tears apart within the body cavity. It has great range and with the added optic, it allows the user to "dig in" if necessary. The suppressor will help if multiple targets need to be engaged at once and stealth is a large part of the plan. It is relatively easy to service, with a little finesse of course and it is reliable in a climate befitting that of most of the US.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by cwi555 View Post
                I look at everything pragmatically. In doing so, I make the assumption that if it can go wrong, it will go wrong.
                When it comes to weapons, the one you have on you, will be more important than the one you have at your house. Most gun owners have zombie killers of one nature or another stashed away, which is all well and good, but what happens if you get caught out in a SHTF scenario?
                The weapon you have on you, may be all you get until you can reach another.

                The SP101 is a fine weapon, but in my eyes, a little more firepower is needed to cover more bases. 6 rounds is not what I consider firepower.

                All of the following is considered to be a pistol, as for this purpose, it's assumed it needs to be something you can have with or very nearby you 24/7.
                My criteria is as follows:
                1. Tough as nails. If I can't drop it twenty feet, or pick it up and shoot it after it hitting the concrete at 60mph, or stash it in a box of rocks and mud and dust it off coming up shooting, it's not tough enough.
                2. Must be able to feed and shoot anything in it's caliber. For semi auto's, it must be able to shoot everything from target loads, to SMG loads.
                3. Must be common parts, if I find one in the hands of the dead, I must be able to interchange parts without special fitting or otherwise requiring a machine shop and hours of screwing around to make it go bang.
                4. Must be able to hit a 4" circle at 10 yards minimum. Preferably be able to hit the same at 25 yards, and a man sized target at 100.
                5. Must be able to get reliable magazines of 20 or better rounds.

                With the gun identified, then it goes to cartridge.
                1. Must be common. A 454 casull is a good bore cartridge, but could you pick some of those rounds up off a dead bad guy? More than likely not.
                2. Can it drop a man with a head shot? How about a body shot?
                3. Must be a current world military round, as you never know who it is you may be facing. Not to mention letting the military of the world do your R&D for you, as well as creating a production base and reams of surplus.

                My educational background includes metallurgy, and welding engineering. My prof. for metallurgy was a like minded individual who was contracted by JSSA during the M9 and M10 trials.

                Through him, I was able to lay my hands on the R&D reports, performance reports, and the programs general reports. Some of which he wrote.

                To make a long story short, I was convinced after reading it, that there is merit in a severe regime of testing before settling on the goto pistol weapons system. I was also convinced that sparing money was a fools errand, and basically amounted to going cheap on life insurance, or buying retread tires for a sports car.

                The cartridge was a no brainer, as most of the military's of the world had settled on the 9mm. Which in SMG or +P or better does do an acceptable job. I have zombie killers in 45acp/44mag/etc but for the one stop shop per the intent of this thread, and my intent at the time, it was the 9mm. I am not party to hague, and with proper bullet/velocity combination, the 9mm can get the job done.

                I went through 12 manufactures of pistols before settling on one.
                S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Browning, Colt, Glock, IMI/magnum research, H&K, Sig, Berreta, CZ (as imported by interarms at the time), and towards the last EAA.

                Over the course of 6 years, I had obtained these firearms, or solid test data, or both.
                All of the M9/M10 trial participants, I took the previously supplied data.
                To make a long story short, after 8K worth of guns, and the same amount of ammo, and 15K spent in lab metallurgical testing in which I dissected both the failures and successes, The Glock 17, Ruger P85, Sig 228, and IMI baby eagle (originally imported as the Jericho, but the same pistol in every substantial way)
                Sig was dropped after a KB with SMG ammo. IMI survived all test, but parts were found to be hand fitted in several cases, and was dropped for that reason. Ruger was dropped for the same reason. Three of the final 4 would go for thousands of rounds (and did) of firing anything, and surviving every torture test I could devise.

                When it was all said and done, the Glock 17 came out on top for the sole reason of parts interchangability. 6 years and all the money I could throw at it went into this effort.

                Word of warning: do not fire lead bullets unless it's an emergency through any hexagonal rifled pistol. The glock could fire it in a stick, which is the only reason it survived the test, but that rifling type does lead up fast. If you want to delead a barrel in a hurry, keep a small vial of mercury and two cork plugs. Mercury will rapidily dissolve lead.

                With that said, Every BOB I have, has a G17 in it with 6 30 round sticks, and 3 17+2 mags. They lead off and alternate +P+ LE federal hi-shocks, IMI SMG, +P+ Speer gold dots.
                It's also what I carry day to day. I've personally tested it, shot thousands of rounds through my original glock, (85K at last count), and would have no qualms about picking it up with a need to depend on it.

                As a caveate, I've been hearing of problem with the generation 3 glocks, but have yet to have the one I bought to test it manifest any of the reported problems.

                My opinion and logic behind it on the subject.
                Like it or not, I believe that the 9mm luger chambered rnd is the #1 handgun ammo, worldwide...next to the .22LR, of course......
                "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

                "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Grim_R556 View Post
                  I personally would pick up the AR-15 with an ACOG scope and a suppressor. It is a smaller calibur ammunition (.223 or 5.56, depending on whether you hunt or are military) but its high muzzle velocity is the bonus. When the round makes impact, the front slows down, but the back end is still carrying momentum, so it comes end over end on itself and the round tears apart within the body cavity. It has great range and with the added optic, it allows the user to "dig in" if necessary. The suppressor will help if multiple targets need to be engaged at once and stealth is a large part of the plan. It is relatively easy to service, with a little finesse of course and it is reliable in a climate befitting that of most of the US.
                  You obviously didn't read the title post....HANDGUN being the operative word......
                  "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

                  "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    My bad! Then I would definately take the Glock 18. 9mm rounds are cheap and widely available and it is easy to service and comfortable to shoot all day long.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There is no "one gun" that an "do it all". There are some guns that are more versitile than others, but like all tools, guns are job specific. Plan on having at least 3 and as many as you can afford. Keep your calibers common and buy small amounts of ammo as often as you can afford to. Common calibers that you can find at any gas station, hardware store, supermart or ditch are:
                      30-06
                      .223
                      .308
                      .22
                      9mm
                      45 acp
                      12 ga.
                      20 ga.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I am seriosly considering an upgrade of my "best gun".

                        The one I have on me most all the time is a S&W 442. its 38 +p and I never feel underarmed carrying it (I usually have a 32 backup in my pocket anyway)

                        I am thinking of going to the S&W M&P340 with is nearly the same gun in 357 magnum, Mainly for the ability to better handle game. I know 357 isn't the best, but I would still carry it. It would fit all my current holsters. Plus I could take game up close in a pinch, 357 takes down a deer up close if you can do your part.

                        I always have a rifle handy, but can't carry it around with me all day, its nearby at home or in the trunk, but the J frame is there.

                        We all like to say, a pistol is for getting the rifle you shouldn't have put down, but that rifle is put down a lot, whether at home depot, the grocery store, sitting in our living room, etc. The pistol or revolver can be available when the rifle or shotgun simply isn't for most people. If sudden trouble strikes, 99% of the time the pistol will be there and ready.
                        My weapon can kill, it isn't limited to mere assault

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I must agree that the best gun in the world is the one I am holding at the time I need it.
                          Although I have not had it for very long I am very impressed with my new Taurus Judge. 3.5 inch barrel, fiber optic front sight and the ability to load 45 long colt or .410 shotgun. Currently I have it staggered with 45 and 410 000 Buck. I have shot a variety of 410 shells and I am most comfortable with the above loads and #4. Not as much recoil as I would have thought, yes slighty heavy but I think worth the weight. If that doesn't work I do have the Mossberg 500 with 18.5" barrel, also kept the factory hunting barrel for versatility.
                          Idiocy on your part should not create an emergency on my part!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            The judge, within limitations, is a good option. However; I would not depend on it to stop anyone past 12 yards. What makes the judge is the federal handgun ammo for it.
                            4 stacked .345" heavily copper plated pellets in a shot cup. Each of the pellets weights out to an average of 62.5 grains. It has an average total muzzle energy of 675 ft pounds. It will penetrate 10" of ballistic jell after going through 1/4" plywood. Where this differs from the 45 lc is that it's damage is spread out. 14" at 12 yards.

                            The standard 000 is .36" so the federal variant is actually inbetween 00 and 000.
                            When you get to the standard buckshot loads, they almost all are lead pellets. They deform heavily in the barrel, with a subsequent reduction of penetration. I shot some winchester that did not make it past 5" in the same test as the federal variant.
                            The federal 410 handgun ammunition makes the judge in my opinion.

                            The #4 shot is not going to kill anyone unless it's a belly shot. It's designed to spray a face full of lead to a car jacker at very close range. At 12 yards the best group I could get with it was 8-9 pellets in an 8" circle.

                            The Safirarms semi auto AR 15 410 goes nicely with the judge.
                            http://www.safirarms.com/images/detay/t14classic.html

                            My input for what it's worth.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by cwi555 View Post
                              I look at everything pragmatically. In doing so, I make the assumption that if it can go wrong, it will go wrong.
                              When it comes to weapons, the one you have on you, will be more important than the one you have at your house. Most gun owners have zombie killers of one nature or another stashed away, which is all well and good, but what happens if you get caught out in a SHTF scenario?
                              The weapon you have on you, may be all you get until you can reach another.

                              The SP101 is a fine weapon, but in my eyes, a little more firepower is needed to cover more bases. 6 rounds is not what I consider firepower.

                              All of the following is considered to be a pistol, as for this purpose, it's assumed it needs to be something you can have with or very nearby you 24/7.
                              My criteria is as follows:
                              1. Tough as nails. If I can't drop it twenty feet, or pick it up and shoot it after it hitting the concrete at 60mph, or stash it in a box of rocks and mud and dust it off coming up shooting, it's not tough enough.
                              2. Must be able to feed and shoot anything in it's caliber. For semi auto's, it must be able to shoot everything from target loads, to SMG loads.
                              3. Must be common parts, if I find one in the hands of the dead, I must be able to interchange parts without special fitting or otherwise requiring a machine shop and hours of screwing around to make it go bang.
                              4. Must be able to hit a 4" circle at 10 yards minimum. Preferably be able to hit the same at 25 yards, and a man sized target at 100.
                              5. Must be able to get reliable magazines of 20 or better rounds.

                              With the gun identified, then it goes to cartridge.
                              1. Must be common. A 454 casull is a good bore cartridge, but could you pick some of those rounds up off a dead bad guy? More than likely not.
                              2. Can it drop a man with a head shot? How about a body shot?
                              3. Must be a current world military round, as you never know who it is you may be facing. Not to mention letting the military of the world do your R&D for you, as well as creating a production base and reams of surplus.

                              My educational background includes metallurgy, and welding engineering. My prof. for metallurgy was a like minded individual who was contracted by JSSA during the M9 and M10 trials.

                              Through him, I was able to lay my hands on the R&D reports, performance reports, and the programs general reports. Some of which he wrote.

                              To make a long story short, I was convinced after reading it, that there is merit in a severe regime of testing before settling on the goto pistol weapons system. I was also convinced that sparing money was a fools errand, and basically amounted to going cheap on life insurance, or buying retread tires for a sports car.

                              The cartridge was a no brainer, as most of the military's of the world had settled on the 9mm. Which in SMG or +P or better does do an acceptable job. I have zombie killers in 45acp/44mag/etc but for the one stop shop per the intent of this thread, and my intent at the time, it was the 9mm. I am not party to hague, and with proper bullet/velocity combination, the 9mm can get the job done.

                              I went through 12 manufactures of pistols before settling on one.
                              S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Browning, Colt, Glock, IMI/magnum research, H&K, Sig, Berreta, CZ (as imported by interarms at the time), and towards the last EAA.

                              Over the course of 6 years, I had obtained these firearms, or solid test data, or both.
                              All of the M9/M10 trial participants, I took the previously supplied data.
                              To make a long story short, after 8K worth of guns, and the same amount of ammo, and 15K spent in lab metallurgical testing in which I dissected both the failures and successes, The Glock 17, Ruger P85, Sig 228, and IMI baby eagle (originally imported as the Jericho, but the same pistol in every substantial way)
                              Sig was dropped after a KB with SMG ammo. IMI survived all test, but parts were found to be hand fitted in several cases, and was dropped for that reason. Ruger was dropped for the same reason. Three of the final 4 would go for thousands of rounds (and did) of firing anything, and surviving every torture test I could devise.

                              When it was all said and done, the Glock 17 came out on top for the sole reason of parts interchangability. 6 years and all the money I could throw at it went into this effort.

                              Word of warning: do not fire lead bullets unless it's an emergency through any hexagonal rifled pistol. The glock could fire it in a stick, which is the only reason it survived the test, but that rifling type does lead up fast. If you want to delead a barrel in a hurry, keep a small vial of mercury and two cork plugs. Mercury will rapidily dissolve lead.

                              With that said, Every BOB I have, has a G17 in it with 6 30 round sticks, and 3 17+2 mags. They lead off and alternate +P+ LE federal hi-shocks, IMI SMG, +P+ Speer gold dots.
                              It's also what I carry day to day. I've personally tested it, shot thousands of rounds through my original glock, (85K at last count), and would have no qualms about picking it up with a need to depend on it.

                              As a caveate, I've been hearing of problem with the generation 3 glocks, but have yet to have the one I bought to test it manifest any of the reported problems.

                              My opinion and logic behind it on the subject.
                              The only thing I have to say to this is, and dont think that I am anti-glock or trying to take away from your testing and history but I couldn't have a glock unless it was a combat weapon.

                              In my line of work I am issued an M&P9, very similar to the Glock in function but because I have children and because my wife does not "feel" the same way as I do about having a gun, I won't carry a striker fired weapon or anything else that is basically a locked and cocked gun with no external safeties home with me or outside of official duties; and no I do not see the trigger on a Glock or M&P as being all that safe. I would take an XD or a 1911 though since they have the grip safeties and/in addition to a true external safety. (I currently carry either a TSW 9 or a Taurus 606/.357 snub for the most part)

                              Have fun with your Glock though, they are tough as nails and competent. I also like the 9mm round since with the right ammo it is zombie killer with one shot.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by hudson69 View Post
                                The only thing I have to say to this is, and dont think that I am anti-glock or trying to take away from your testing and history but I couldn't have a glock unless it was a combat weapon.

                                In my line of work I am issued an M&P9, very similar to the Glock in function but because I have children and because my wife does not "feel" the same way as I do about having a gun, I won't carry a striker fired weapon or anything else that is basically a locked and cocked gun with no external safeties home with me or outside of official duties; and no I do not see the trigger on a Glock or M&P as being all that safe. I would take an XD or a 1911 though since they have the grip safeties and/in addition to a true external safety. (I currently carry either a TSW 9 or a Taurus 606/.357 snub for the most part)

                                Have fun with your Glock though, they are tough as nails and competent. I also like the 9mm round since with the right ammo it is zombie killer with one shot.
                                Of the choices you list as optional for yourself, the 1911 is the better one. The shear volume of them out there will ensure parts availability, but be sure it's in .45. My opinion for what it's worth.

                                Comment

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