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  • Scrounging

    O.K., let me make one thing VERY clear.......I am in no way condoning or asking permission to loot.

    With that said, at what point does everyone feel in the PAW that if you find something, (supplies, ammo, etc) do you think you are O.K. morally to take it? I am not talking about 2 days after the event, stealing plasma T.V.'s, I'm mean several months later, finding meds or food. When does looting become scrounging?

    And before I get any flack over preparedness, I do have about a year's worth of supplies, working on more.
    All that is gold does not glitter, nor all who wander are lost

  • #2
    Very interesting topic.....

    I don;t know where I stand on the idea.... But, just off the top of my head I would say if you are still counting in increments of days or weeks it’s to early… (TSHTF + 2 weeks)
    But even that if you came across something that looks like it was abandoned, what then?

    Or to take it one step further if you knew of a personal stock pile somewhere and you also know that the owners were thousands of miles away…. Does that make it ok to use? Or grab for safe keeping?
    Or what if you knew the people were on vacation and their vacation spot was hit by a nuke or something… Then is it ok?
    ~ Awesome ~

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    • #3
      That with the Vacation is an excellent example........I have my own ideas, but I would like to see everyone elses take on it. I would say that if you know them well enough to know about their stockpile, then if they show back up, you'd return it, or include them in your group
      All that is gold does not glitter, nor all who wander are lost

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      • #4
        Tough one... I think that is one of the "play it by ear" decisions... It would be hard not to take something knowing that the next desperate fella that hapened along would take it anyway.

        I'm thinking: Wrecked car, no survivors... sure they don't need it anymore, unless there is still some semblance of law abounding, then maybe not. Too many variables to nail it down completely.

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        • #5
          For me, it's a family matter.
          If my wife and kids are starving and I've exhausted my supplies as well as any way to acquire or barter for more, then I will be reduced to stealing. I won't like it and would of course try to find items that appear to be abandoned, but I would surely do it to insure my families survival.
          I believe that much will depend on the environment at the time. I think that morals, and rules will fade as surroundings grow more hostile.
          The 12ga.... It's not just for rabbits anymore.

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          • #6
            This subject comes-up at least once a year.
            Scounging/salvaging/reclaiming is something that occures only when items have been thrown away, as in the third world, at a dump.
            Looting is theft of private property it is like a home invasion even if it occures at a empty home, warehouse, store, etc..
            In a PAW situation all these concepts will disappear within 24 hours. Attempting to be ethical or law abiding may be an impossisable task. Even a 'mere' EMP strike will make freedom of movement problematic, traveling to and from abandoned homes/stores that meet the criterion of being 'ethicaly correct' will not be an option.
            This is why it is so important to stock-pile food and other items now, keep a VERY low profile.
            Being out on the streets in the first 90 days after an event is a near death sentance for the interlopers and thier families left behind in the supposed safety of thier home.
            If you are in the suburbs or away from the major city centers hunker down for 90 days and let the predators feed on the grazers. When the predators die-off is the time to make a move to safety. If you are in a rural setting do your preps and get to know your local sheriff, join his posse, but never tell anyone how many firearms you have.
            Last edited by kenno; 07-16-2009, 07:39 PM.
            The road to serfdom is paved with free electric golf carts.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by hubste5 View Post
              Tough one... I think that is one of the "play it by ear" decisions... It would be hard not to take something knowing that the next desperate fella that hapened along would take it anyway.

              I'm thinking: Wrecked car, no survivors... sure they don't need it anymore, unless there is still some semblance of law abounding, then maybe not. Too many variables to nail it down completely.

              That's what I'm saying, finders keepers seems to work for me
              All that is gold does not glitter, nor all who wander are lost

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              • #8
                I know that I haven't posted in a while but this is one subject that seems to haunt me. I'm not so sure that it is not already an "us against them" situation. I don't know that it is something that we will have to confront in the smoke of "the day after", I believe that it will seem clearer then. I struggle with it now. I'm a cop and I don't steal, it would mean my job. I'm a Christian and I don't steal, it would mean my eternal soul. But, like you have so appropriatly (sp?) asked; when does it become OK or justified? If you know a tragedy, martial law, terrorist attack, breakdown of society, or any SHTF situation is imminent (and it is, i.e. pandemic) is it OK to scrounge? I have had the opportunity twice to obtain a coveted item that is not available to the general public and I have not. To take it and be caught would mean prison. To need it and not have it in the future could mean death. Personally, I can't justify it to myself right now, but at the same time, I don't know why I can't.
                bbc
                The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                • #9
                  Like beebopsop, I too can't justify this at this point in time. After TSHTF will be another matter. Careful analysis of the situation will be in order then. Life or death, the survival of my grandchildren, children and long time partner will determine what I will do at the time. Having been in the Army, 24 years, and now training young soldiers to do things they will be hated and despised for, won't let me do these things now. "Legal" scrounging is another matter all together.

                  I am reminded of a speech I once wrote for a graduating class at the military school here. It echoed the famous Duty, Honor, Country farewell speech MacArthur gave at West Point but updated for the current time in history. It would serve us all well to remember that theme.
                  As Zombie Axe would say...
                  "Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty."

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                  • #10
                    We have visited this subject before, I suggested it would be good to get to know what is where in and around your area and route to a backup location. It should be understood that the knowledge where you could collect items and it has nothing to do with out right theft simply because the owner is not around and you need it. After a severe event or 90 days into it, you will save time collecting/gathering useful tools to "Save" lives with etc. Previously, I was specifically talking about a emp EVENT most of us will know or recognize such a event and its meaning to all. At that point you will have to make life and death decisions daily so don't debate the morality to long. Some of us will have most of all of what we need, some will be at various stages of preparedness of course the fore mentioned would be best
                    but, Keep cash and gold, silver to buy needed items as thing get bad. Or extra ammo/guns etc. for trading. Events such as a EMP will give you a small window to operate with cash or precious metals as trade for items. I figure, 24-48 hrs would be the most time I would allow myself before bugging out. I guarantee you it'll be surreal after a EMP strike, everything you once relied on for information will be useless. Just learn to read the signs such a event will leave in its wake.
                    It's late and I have a mountain cabin and land to check out later today, also need to draft a action plan as to what WE need to still get at what timeline etc. everyday it seems like we need more????????
                    Waitnc

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                    • #11
                      I like to scrouge at local junkyards/Goodwill/christian ministeries/SERF and the like. I know what you are getting at as fas as abandoned equipment/supplies, I really think it would depend on the immediate situation/desperation of the individuals involved(age/health/medical-medication dependance...etc.)

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                      • #12
                        One very,very,very critical point to add in this discussion is the topic of physical fitness.

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