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Interesting real example of survival reloading

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  • Garand
    replied
    About 3 years ago, I was offered 7 lbs of Hercules Infallible, in plastic bags. No date of manufacture, but the last time Infallible was manufactured was in 1948. I repacked it into used plastic propellant containers that I had purged previously. That 7 lbs made about 16,000 rds or so for my wife's .38 Special Ruger Vaqueros. I still have about 3,400 rds left for this years matches.

    Hummer, just curious about 10-12 years ago I worked with some gentlemen from Aberdeen that came up to Western Canada to help us do some Explosive trials, would you have known them?

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  • Tugaloo
    replied
    I have some WWII surplus .45 ACP and .30 (AKA 30-06) CAL. Every couple of years, I take some out and shoot it in a WWII 1911-A1 or a Springfield 1903-A4. They all go bang still no F2F.

    I've found the economy boxed .22 RF has a lot of F2F. As it is easy, I try again with a Ruger Single 6 revolver because I can rotate the round where there isn't an existing strike mark on the rim. Using this method and although it may take a couple of rotations, every F2F now fires.
    I also have 7.62x51 Radway Green, Hirt, SA, EG and Venezuelan etc. All are from around the 80s and no F2F. Here, what is interesting is the steel jacket with copper flash guilding all fragment. However, Dr. Fackler wrote about it.

    As a retired mechanical engineer, I am familiar with spring life. Although it is longer than most would expect, why would anyone store a firearm with the safety on?

    Using a chronograph, you'll find interesting differences in ammo stored in direct sunlight. Same as cold having an effect on ammo's components; so does heat. OTOH, with today's temperature "stabilized" powders; supposedly matters have improved.

    I have a chronograph and Mil Surplus ammo varies a lot more than one would assume.. Cruffler.com disassembled a variety of 7.62x51 NATO ammo and the differences were impressive. However, as I have many of the 7.62 NATO rounds
    Cruffler measured, I can say no one would want to be shot with one.
    http://www.cruffler.com/trivia-June01.html
    OTOH, with military surplus is it really important? As they aren't MOA and they are MOT or minute of torso.



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  • Hummer
    replied
    In my first response I neglected to talk about ammo life. When I got to the Army Small Cal Lab and was being trained I specifically asked and the Chief of the lab was formerly an ammo engineer at Frankford Arsenal.

    Ammo in military cans that have never been opened has a project shelf life of 125 years minimum.

    Ammo in military cans that has been opened will last about 75 years. Basically it was stressed the AIR IS HE ENEMY OF AMMUNITION

    Primers not stored in ammo cans will react to air quickly.

    If you get new primers you should put them in a GI ammo can quickly.

    I was impressed with the last Russian Wolf Primers, they cam in a sealed plastic wrapper but I still put them in GI ammo cans.

    All the makers I know of have the same requirement, 1 misfire per million. assuming your primers have been cared for. Another enemy if oil so be care how you lube your weapon.

    While testing 357 Magnum a slight sprinkling came up and I just turned my clipboard over and walked back to a covered area. Rain stopped in about 15 minutes. We went back and there was water drops on the case heads so we went back to testing. Had 17 failures to fire in first box. We had already opened a case of 500 and shot about half of it. I chunked the wet ammo in trash and got more out of the box and no more failures to fire.

    We were doing 10,000 round 357 Magnum testing.

    In rifles do not store them loaded with safety on. This puts stress on striker spring and left compressed many will "take a set" IOW become shorter which lowers the energy imparted to the primers. Before you have misfires if you are shooting at long range you will experience vertical shot stringing. Change your striker spring.

    If you have a chronograph ever better. You will note an increased in standard deviation. At a given point you will get a click instead of a bang. When I replace springs in my bolt guns I order the next energy range up. Wolfe springs generally has three energy levels, "factory" and two stronger levels. I order at a min the next energy level.

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  • Tugaloo
    replied
    The price increases and scarcity of firearms and anything firearms related is fairly easy to explain. Between 2019 to 2021, The FBI's NICS checks were an all time high. Due to the riots etc. people bought firearms and they wanted to buy ammo for them. Immediately demand outstripped supply and prices increased radically.

    From 2019 to 2021, the FBI's NICS volume was 106,941,738.
    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/..._year.pdf/view
    According to the NRA many are first time buyers and many of them are women. The first thing many buyers want to do is buy a box of ammunition. Many of those who reload will buy a box of ammo to shoot the new toy while they buy dies etc.

    I might misquoting Mr. Colt's "'be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size, call on me and I will equalize'." However, 106,941,738. NICS checks say a lot of people did get what he was saying. Can they stand in the box at the 2 way range is the question.

    You're quite correct as our president is considering or has authorized the Pentagon to send 8,500 US troops to the Ukraine. As Putin has 100,000 troops, heavy armor and artillery on the Ukraine's border.
    The math is simple 100,000 vs 8,500 is insane odds.
    Putin has massed troops on the Ukraine's border so who is threatening war? IMO, our response was as lame as it gets.
    I'll avoid getting into politics; however, the question is what will "we "do if Putin invades the Ukraine? Start WWIII?

    That was an interesting statement. Trust me, when Ma Deuce talks it is very wise to listen as Ma is famous for turning serious cover into mere concealment.
    It has been a long time; however, a 50 CAL's tracer burnout is about 2400 yards.


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  • Armyjimbo
    replied
    In Canada the shooting of .50BMG is now prohibited, because our PM doesn't want anyone to use the ability to match the governments forces. The way it's looking .338 could soon join the list, it seems our beloved leader can't trust the civilian population. So she's shadow banned 1700 + types of firearms, claiming they are weapons of war or variants of them. Odd that I cannot use the bolt of my Mosssberg Plinkster in my AR chassis then. As to the 7.62x51 vs .308 Win and .223 Rem vs 5.56 The big differences are pressure related. Hence safe to shoot one but not the other in a specific chamber, leading to a possible failure. Check out the reading on that subject online.

    Neck thickness when swaging down to another caliber, can be addressed by a neck turning tool. I made lots of use while making 300 Savage from .308 Win.

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  • orangetom1999
    replied
    Been watching the news and hearing the war drums beating ...and re beating again as in previous histories.

    Someone is pushing for war ...big time...and I smell profits for someone out there again at the cost of someone else's finest blood.



    In the back of my mind...I have been thinking that someone or some thing out there has been removing a lot of ammunition and reloading supplies both from the private marketplace.

    The wide spreadness of this fingerprint all across this land cannot be accidental. I have noted this in conversation with shooters and reloaders across this land and for some time now.


    In the back of my mind there always was the question.....what is happening to all these resources which are not being used by the private sector of the economy....not available to the private sector??

    These resources do not just disappear.....

    They had to have been re routed somewhere and for some reason. And when you can get ammunition or reloading supplies they have gone up in price.


    I am and have been thinking that these resources have for some time now been privily re routed to our government/military...

    It is not desired nor prefer that these resources be made available to private Americans. This happened big time under the Obama Administration and now we see this coming back under the Biden Administration. Under Trump these resources were making a come back....now they are gone again.


    With War drums beating ....I am thinking I now have my answer to a long held question.

    Someone has been preparing for a war.....another war..........


    Again...buckle up..seatbelts and shoulder harnesses.....seats in the upright and stowed position.

    You members make up your own minds. I merely propose this as a possibility to what has been going on for some time now ..in ammo shortages and now also reloading supplies shortages. Reloading supplies is a big tell tale to me.


    You know....while I do not own one and have no ambition to own one...I am thinking with a huge question mark.......what is the current availability on the civilian market for reloaders who reload the .50 BMG rounds???? That should be very very telling if in big shortage!!!
    The .50 BMG uses a very distinctive bullet, powder and primer....all pretty much exclusive to the .50BMG.
    And it is a very big time sought after round in stopping fights among ground troops..
    It puts an end to fighting rapidly by it's very power...


    MY non Ishmaelite .02,
    Orangetom
    Last edited by orangetom1999; 01-24-2022, 02:36 PM.

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  • Tugaloo
    replied
    When you modify brass from one caliber to another, measure the case volume, neck thickness etc.
    I had a pet load for my .357 magnum. I reloaded a different name brass with the exact same load and the result was flattened primers. Oops.

    There is a difference between .308 and 7.62x51. A search for "what is the differences between .308 Win and 7.62x51 NATO will yield a lot of hits. I chose Fulton Armory.
    https://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs%5CM14-FAQs%5C308.htm

    There is a difference between .223 and 5.56
    https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition
    This is more interesting as the difference isn't chamber pressure (5.56 is ~58,000 PSI and the .223 is ~55,000). As the 5.56 NATO's leade is .125" longer. When fired in a .223 chamber; pressures increase to ~65,000 PSI or more..
    https://www.hornadyle.com/resources/le-faq/what-is-the-difference-between-556-nato-and-223-rem-ammunition

    All my ARs have a .223 Wylde chamber which allows shooting 5.56 or .223 with no issues and accuracy is the typical AR.
    https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/223-wylde-the-ideal-ar-15-chamber/.

    Speaking of reforming brass? When I was in HS, I won a Sako Vixen .222 Rmag that shoots well under a MOA. Today, it is an obsolete caliber. I discovered I can form .204 Ruger brass to .222 Rmag.

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  • orangetom1999
    replied
    by Armyjimbo,

    A little research and books of knowledge go a long way, The 30.06 case dimensions have been used to create ALOT of other calibers , not even intended ones. Right now I'm working on a SWISS VETTERLI converting it to centerfire from rimfire. While that takes a bit fiddling the other process is making brass to fit the old style compressed BP case dimensions. Lots of taper on the case, long heavy bullet of odd caliber. 300+ grains and .41 in dia. But in Canada as long as I put the rimfire firing pin back in its an antique and not a firearm
    Some years ago I purchased an Enfield Rifle...but not in the well known .303 British Calibration. Mine is an Ishapore Enfield calibrated in .308 Winchester or what is often called NATO 7.62 x 51 mm calibration.

    I chose this calibration because around here .308 Winchester is more readily available than .303 British. Also the .308 in like manner to the 30.06 has an abundance of reloading options in powder, primers, and bullet types/weights. It is a reloaders dream.

    And of course the military still uses a lot of 7.62 X 51 Calibration.

    Nonetheless...when I can I also believe in flexability...options in reloding ..which Is why I taught myself to do some resizing of brass in a pinch/prepping situation.

    An interesting book on this topic is titled...

    The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions.
    By
    Don and Judy Donnelly

    Very informative..


    Orangetom
    Not an Ishmaelite.

    Leave a comment:


  • Armyjimbo
    replied
    Originally posted by orangetom1999 View Post
    Verily agree....Armyjimbo...

    I make 7mm TCU from .223 Cases...

    .308 from 30.36 if needed....

    also .243 From .308 if needed..

    Also 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka from 30.06 cases


    It is a good skill to know in a pinch.

    You are in the bullseye on parent cases...

    Mostly I wanted to know if I could do it...in hard times.

    And now I know.

    It adds flexibility in hard times....


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Orangetom
    A little research and books of knowledge go a long way, The 30.06 case dimensions have been used to create ALOT of other calibers , not even intended ones. Right now I'm working on a SWISS VETTERLI converting it to centerfire from rimfire. While that takes a bit fiddling the other process is making brass to fit the old style compressed BP case dimensions. Lots of taper on the case, long heavy bullet of odd caliber. 300+ grains and .41 in dia. But in Canada as long as I put the rimfire firing pin back in its an antique and not a firearm

    Leave a comment:


  • Tugaloo
    replied

    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view

    Although a NICS check does not mean the person actually purchased a firearm; it does imply they did. With so many new owners wanting ammunition for their purchase would generate a situation where demand is greater than supply.
    Last year, we bought a canoe. The shopper in front of us bought an AR and a Berretta 9mm. He asked when the store received ammo; the clerk said Tuesdays and Thursdays.
    I'm in my 70s and I've never bought a new caliber to me firearm without buying a box of ammunition; so I could shoot it.
    With all the problems of today, I understand why so many first time buyers want to have a firearm. When lawless activities are ignored; one would be foolish not to be armed with the skills to use it..

    Attached Files
    Last edited by Tugaloo; 01-21-2022, 08:33 PM. Reason: Too many of the same image posted

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  • Sourdough
    replied
    The "FUTURE"..........Two company's control "Production and Distribution".
    What the Great Ammunition Shortage Says About Inflation (substack.com)

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  • Tugaloo
    replied
    My favorite is 30-06 to 25-06; shoot them and 25-06AI.

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  • orangetom1999
    replied
    Verily agree....Armyjimbo...

    I make 7mm TCU from .223 Cases...

    .308 from 30.36 if needed....

    also .243 From .308 if needed..

    Also 7.7mm Japanese Arisaka from 30.06 cases


    It is a good skill to know in a pinch.

    You are in the bullseye on parent cases...

    Mostly I wanted to know if I could do it...in hard times.

    And now I know.

    It adds flexibility in hard times....


    My non Ishmaelite .02,
    Orangetom

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  • Armyjimbo
    replied
    I hear whats being said. I commonly cheap my 6.5 Grendel ammo. Normally the most expensive part for some calibers is the cases. For Grendel I have taken 7.62x39 cases and swage them and length trim them, now I have 800m rounds for minimal costs. Same with .300 blackout from. 223/5.56. If you know your history of the caliber you want to shoot, you may find the parent case costs way less. The 30.06 case has many cartridges spawned from it, .308. 6.5CM, 7.08, .300 Sav. etc. A bit of time can save $ in the end.

    Primers on the other hand, buy cheap seal up stack deep
    Last edited by Armyjimbo; 01-19-2022, 02:33 AM.

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  • Garand
    replied
    Gunkid, you are incorrect! Black Powder is a 1.1D Explosive, Propellant is a 1.3C Explosive, depending on the Primer manufacturer they are 1.1B Explosive, Small Arms Ammunition is a 1.4S Explosive, Small Arms Ammunition with a tracer is generally 1.4C explosive. I did spend 35 years of my career, working as an Army Ammunition Technician/EOD and as a Civilian Explosives Technician for a Defense Research Facility while you were in jail.

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