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offers over 2500 fps, 800 ft lbs. That's about 20% more power than a 22 Hornet. Jim Carmichael, shooting editor for Outdoor life for 20 years, Boone and Crocket best troph for many years, with several heads of different species, in both N. America and Africa, said he'd bet his million $ farm and another 100k (in today's money) that he could take ANY N American game animal with a .22 hornet and no more than 2 shots, under conditions of FAIR chase (ie, no dogs, no baiting,, no jack-lighting, in season) He meant sub 100m shots at the neck/head, cause the Hornet does not offer enough penetration for chest shots on the great bears, bison, elk, moose, walrus, musk ox. The Hornet offers no swift followup shots, but the AR DOES.
Of course, for shtf, we SHOULD be using silencer, night scope, nvd goggle, jacklighting and baiting and of course we'll have to take females, juveniles, whatever we can eat. The shorty 223 hits every bit as hard as a 4" .44 mag revolver, or a ky rifle ever did and considerably harder than the .44-40 lever action ever did (700 ft lbs, no expansion, just a flat point lead bullet). You can bet your life, in complete confidence, that LOTS of big animals were taken with the Ky rifle and the 44-40, out of necessity.
Of course, the muzzle loader offered no follow up shot at ALL, obscured the target in a wall of smoke, etc. The KY is what Lewis and Clark's men took and they said it was very sub-optimal on bison and grizzlies. So the Hawken rifle was developed, in order to have considerably more power. with a shorter barrel, for use while riding a horse. The greater weight of powder and shot for the .68 caliber was normally born by the horse.
By utilizing a scope and the flatter-trajectory (ie, less time for an animal to move while the bullet is in-flight)by virtue of having twice the velocity and a pointed bullet, brain hits can be had at greater distances than with the lower velocity rifles. Also, knowing to brace the rifle over your walking sticks, frame pack, etc, will help with precision placement of the bullet. Ditto the lack of flinching from muzzle blast (to say nothing of the lighting of a fire right under your nose with a flintlock) using the silencer. and modern ammo, brain hits on big animals with the shorty AR are feasible at considerably greater range than Lewis's men dared to risk. Also true for anyone with a 44-40 lever action.
Kilimanjaro Bell took hundreds of elephants with a 7x57 bolt action, using brain hits, so as to save money otherwise spent on ammo for the big bore double rifle.. He had a man following him with the big rifle, of course, in case of charges by tuskers. He had his boys use a big two man saw to remove a tusker's head and drag it away from the body. Then he had the head sawn in half from front to back and the 2 halves separated, so that he could take note of where to aim from any angle and still hit the brain. We wont be shooting at elephants if shtf., so the 223 suffices to get brain hits.
I knew an Innuit who preferred 22-250 and brain shots for walrus and seals. He'd tried even a 375 H and H and said heart hit still let the critters get to the water and be lost.. He belly-crawled on the ice, closing from 400 to 200m, using a white screen as a movable "blind" behind which he hid, wearing a white suit, with a white sheet around his rifle barrel. He had a little eye hole thru which he'd watch. When the seal dozed off,, he'd crawl a bit closer. When the seal roused and looked around, he'd freeze. When he decided to shoot, he'd lower a little flap in the screen, stick the rifle thru it and fire. Walruses reach 2000 lbs in weight, folks. Like a bison, half as big as a rhino or hippo.
The auto offers twice as fast a followup shot as the lever action can manage. and 5x as fast as Carmichael's bolt action 22 Hornet can offer. For shtf, being able to get a shot at such animals will be a great rarity in the first 1-2 months and after that, they'll all have been eaten by dog packs or people. So the idea some have of a 308, or even .30Ak as being better for shtf, due to big game potential,, is, shall we say, a fantasy.
So is shooting thru cover with the 308. Many things can stop a 308 bullet and shooting at what you can't SEE is a good way to run out of ammo. Especially when , due to weight and bulk of 30 cal ammo, you could only carry half as much of it in the first place, vs what you can carry due to the lighter AR, lighter 223 ammo, 22lr ammo for the conversion unit, and knowing to have the silencer, night scope, and not be out and about in daylight. The 308 autorifle is not feasible to silence, due to its already too great weight and bulk.
Making noise, when the woods are full of desperate, well armed people, is a very stupid idea. So is running out of ammo. 50 rds of 223, and 50 rds of 60 gr subsonic 22lr total 3.3 lbs. The AR is 3 lbs lighter than any 308 battle rifle. The aluminum AR mags are 5 ozs. The 20 rd steel 308 mags are 7 ozs. The 308 silencer and scope mount have to be heavier than the same parts for the 223, due to the greater powder volume of the ammo and the increasedrecoil. The scope mounts have to be STEEL for the 308 and it's a good idea for the scope tube to be steel also.,
Naturally, the more ammo you carry, the worse this situation gets for 30 cal fans. At night, with subsonic ammo, the bolt locked shut manually, using the silencer, day/night scope, night vision, the 22's limited range and power is not nearly the handicap that it is in daylight ( especially without the silencer). Being able to silently forage, remove scouts, sentries or guard dogs is a precious advantage.
.30 AK ammo s 22 rds to the lb, like .45 ball. 223 ammo is 35 rds to the lb, like 9mm ball. the 60 gr 22lr subsonics are 100 rds to the lb. 150 gr 308 rds are 18 to the lb. The 168 gr loads are 16 to the lb. 12 ga shells are 10 to the lb. You just can't be lugging around the extra weight and bulk for shtf, guys. You'll be stuck with lugging pack, extra clothing, sleep/shelter gear, minimal tools, water, food, armor, night vision. All that stuff is going to total 30 lbs, at the least.
If you try adding 25 lbs of 308 and .45 to the BOB for shtf, you'll sprain an ankle or knee, pull a calf muscle etc and then it will all be over but the crying. You have to be able to RUN with your BOB, far and fast, drop prone when shot at, roll over, jump up, repeat, You wont be doing that with 55 lbs of stuff. It's very difficult to do so with 40 lbs.
There will be no supply sergeant to re-issue gear that you've abandoned, no Air Cav to come save you, no safe base to run back to, no medical treatment. You'll have to overcome those shortfalls with cunning and skill, and superior gear. That means being very careful when and how you engage enemies, staying underground during daytime, showing no light at night, having no fire during the daytime. AVOID people AMAP, due to treachery, active opposition, diseases, etc. Forget the walking around in daylight hunting or fishing, forget the fire-fight bs. If you do not heed this advice, the odds are going to get you.
Of course, for shtf, we SHOULD be using silencer, night scope, nvd goggle, jacklighting and baiting and of course we'll have to take females, juveniles, whatever we can eat. The shorty 223 hits every bit as hard as a 4" .44 mag revolver, or a ky rifle ever did and considerably harder than the .44-40 lever action ever did (700 ft lbs, no expansion, just a flat point lead bullet). You can bet your life, in complete confidence, that LOTS of big animals were taken with the Ky rifle and the 44-40, out of necessity.
Of course, the muzzle loader offered no follow up shot at ALL, obscured the target in a wall of smoke, etc. The KY is what Lewis and Clark's men took and they said it was very sub-optimal on bison and grizzlies. So the Hawken rifle was developed, in order to have considerably more power. with a shorter barrel, for use while riding a horse. The greater weight of powder and shot for the .68 caliber was normally born by the horse.
By utilizing a scope and the flatter-trajectory (ie, less time for an animal to move while the bullet is in-flight)by virtue of having twice the velocity and a pointed bullet, brain hits can be had at greater distances than with the lower velocity rifles. Also, knowing to brace the rifle over your walking sticks, frame pack, etc, will help with precision placement of the bullet. Ditto the lack of flinching from muzzle blast (to say nothing of the lighting of a fire right under your nose with a flintlock) using the silencer. and modern ammo, brain hits on big animals with the shorty AR are feasible at considerably greater range than Lewis's men dared to risk. Also true for anyone with a 44-40 lever action.
Kilimanjaro Bell took hundreds of elephants with a 7x57 bolt action, using brain hits, so as to save money otherwise spent on ammo for the big bore double rifle.. He had a man following him with the big rifle, of course, in case of charges by tuskers. He had his boys use a big two man saw to remove a tusker's head and drag it away from the body. Then he had the head sawn in half from front to back and the 2 halves separated, so that he could take note of where to aim from any angle and still hit the brain. We wont be shooting at elephants if shtf., so the 223 suffices to get brain hits.
I knew an Innuit who preferred 22-250 and brain shots for walrus and seals. He'd tried even a 375 H and H and said heart hit still let the critters get to the water and be lost.. He belly-crawled on the ice, closing from 400 to 200m, using a white screen as a movable "blind" behind which he hid, wearing a white suit, with a white sheet around his rifle barrel. He had a little eye hole thru which he'd watch. When the seal dozed off,, he'd crawl a bit closer. When the seal roused and looked around, he'd freeze. When he decided to shoot, he'd lower a little flap in the screen, stick the rifle thru it and fire. Walruses reach 2000 lbs in weight, folks. Like a bison, half as big as a rhino or hippo.
The auto offers twice as fast a followup shot as the lever action can manage. and 5x as fast as Carmichael's bolt action 22 Hornet can offer. For shtf, being able to get a shot at such animals will be a great rarity in the first 1-2 months and after that, they'll all have been eaten by dog packs or people. So the idea some have of a 308, or even .30Ak as being better for shtf, due to big game potential,, is, shall we say, a fantasy.
So is shooting thru cover with the 308. Many things can stop a 308 bullet and shooting at what you can't SEE is a good way to run out of ammo. Especially when , due to weight and bulk of 30 cal ammo, you could only carry half as much of it in the first place, vs what you can carry due to the lighter AR, lighter 223 ammo, 22lr ammo for the conversion unit, and knowing to have the silencer, night scope, and not be out and about in daylight. The 308 autorifle is not feasible to silence, due to its already too great weight and bulk.
Making noise, when the woods are full of desperate, well armed people, is a very stupid idea. So is running out of ammo. 50 rds of 223, and 50 rds of 60 gr subsonic 22lr total 3.3 lbs. The AR is 3 lbs lighter than any 308 battle rifle. The aluminum AR mags are 5 ozs. The 20 rd steel 308 mags are 7 ozs. The 308 silencer and scope mount have to be heavier than the same parts for the 223, due to the greater powder volume of the ammo and the increasedrecoil. The scope mounts have to be STEEL for the 308 and it's a good idea for the scope tube to be steel also.,
Naturally, the more ammo you carry, the worse this situation gets for 30 cal fans. At night, with subsonic ammo, the bolt locked shut manually, using the silencer, day/night scope, night vision, the 22's limited range and power is not nearly the handicap that it is in daylight ( especially without the silencer). Being able to silently forage, remove scouts, sentries or guard dogs is a precious advantage.
.30 AK ammo s 22 rds to the lb, like .45 ball. 223 ammo is 35 rds to the lb, like 9mm ball. the 60 gr 22lr subsonics are 100 rds to the lb. 150 gr 308 rds are 18 to the lb. The 168 gr loads are 16 to the lb. 12 ga shells are 10 to the lb. You just can't be lugging around the extra weight and bulk for shtf, guys. You'll be stuck with lugging pack, extra clothing, sleep/shelter gear, minimal tools, water, food, armor, night vision. All that stuff is going to total 30 lbs, at the least.
If you try adding 25 lbs of 308 and .45 to the BOB for shtf, you'll sprain an ankle or knee, pull a calf muscle etc and then it will all be over but the crying. You have to be able to RUN with your BOB, far and fast, drop prone when shot at, roll over, jump up, repeat, You wont be doing that with 55 lbs of stuff. It's very difficult to do so with 40 lbs.
There will be no supply sergeant to re-issue gear that you've abandoned, no Air Cav to come save you, no safe base to run back to, no medical treatment. You'll have to overcome those shortfalls with cunning and skill, and superior gear. That means being very careful when and how you engage enemies, staying underground during daytime, showing no light at night, having no fire during the daytime. AVOID people AMAP, due to treachery, active opposition, diseases, etc. Forget the walking around in daylight hunting or fishing, forget the fire-fight bs. If you do not heed this advice, the odds are going to get you.
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