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praise of ak 74

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  • #16
    don't try it. if you "totally neglect it", it will rust up and be ruined, just like anything else made of steel. Minimal maintenance must be done, on anything that will corrode. It needs a minimal amount of removal of debris and fouling and also lubrication. Go to any AK forum, and look at all the guys having problems with this or that. It's fallible, just like anything else that's steel and has moving parts.

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    • #17
      I went to a funeral about six years back and after he was lowered into the ground we drifted over to a guy's car and he pulls out a SKS and I bought it and came home. Looked like it had been living hard and I was scrubbing the barrel and to the naked eye bore looked good then I ran the Olympus Series 5 borescope down the bore and even though it was chromed it was pitted to h&G.

      I found a home for it fairly quickly. Just because it has a chrome bore doesn't mean it won't go South like everything else.
      Distinguished Rifleman High Power , Distinguished Rifleman Smallbore Prone, Presidents Hundred (Rifle), Palma Teams Member (2), Dewar Teams Member (2), Member 4 Man National Championship Smallbore AnySight Team, Certified Small Arms and Ammunition Test Director Aberdeen Proving Ground , Eagle Scout, AC4HT, NRA Benefactor Member, Firefighter I, Shriner

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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      • #18
        I have AR rifles in two calibers. 6.8 s.p.c. and 5.56.
        I've harvested whitetail deer with the 6.8 s.p.c. 90 grain soft points.
        Dead right there. It's a shame ammo is near or more than a buck a round!
        I miss my AK's and wish I had 'nuther one.
        Better make it a point to scrounge up one.
        The AK was made for people basically illiterate and see no more sense in cleaning
        a rifle than cleaning a garden hoe.
        I recall an article where the S.African military found AK's in a cave that had been there
        for decades.
        Rusted to heck. They poured motor oil all over 'em, inside the works, and fired
        'em full auto till the oil caught fire.

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        • #19
          I love the AK platform but the 5.45 round is way to light! The old AK-47 still is the best at both defense and hunting. 124 gram rounds tops the list!!!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by RICHFL View Post
            I love the AK platform but the 5.45 round is way to light! The old AK-47 still is the best at both defense and hunting. 124 gram rounds tops the list!!!
            So why do we now have the 5.56 Nato round?

            Evidently it was adopted for good reasons.
            Too light?
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO

            Standard for bullet weight is grains, not grams.

            At least in the U.S.

            For hunting I do prefer a heavier bullet even for whitetail deer.
            Got my 8 point 20 minutes after opening season with a 45-70 Marlin 300 grain
            soft point at a mere 40 yards.
            Bang! Dead right there.
            Almost all 60 some deer were taken on by 15 acres.
            My place is surrounded by hundreds of acres of farm land.
            Ohio deer are big because of the amount of farm crops they eat.
            My biggest was 205 pounds hanging weight. Archery harvest.

            My home shtf rifle is a Ruger SR 556. (among others)
            I keep about a thousand rounds available.
            Rifles are legal now in Ohio but in certain calibers that don't include the 5.56.

            Straight-walled cartridge rifles in the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .450 Marlin, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110, and .500 Smith & Wesson.

            Some of the above I personally feed too light for deer.
            .38 spl. .41 long colt, are two of 'em.

            The 50-110 would be awesome.

            Bullet Wt: 400gr BCFP
            Velocity: 2200fps
            I'll just suffer with my 45-70 300 grain loaded to Marlin potential.
            Bullet Weight: 300 grns Bullet: Hornady 4500 HP Bullet Diameter: 0.458"
            Powder: IMR 4198 Powder Weight: 52.9 grns Primer: Remington 9 1/2
            COL: 2.550" Muzzle Velocity: 2309 fps

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            • #21
              Sorry about that. The 5.56 NATO was forced on the military for two reasons.

              1. Cost of the weapons system for the original M-16 was $70.00 each. It replaced the M-14 a very similar weapons system from WW-II the M-1 rifle.

              2. Very accurate round at over 3,000 FPS so less cost to teach marksmanship to troops.

              So it all came down to C O S T!!!!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RICHFL View Post
                Sorry about that. The 5.56 NATO was forced on the military for two reasons.

                1. Cost of the weapons system for the original M-16 was $70.00 each. It replaced the M-14 a very similar weapons system from WW-II the M-1 rifle.

                2. Very accurate round at over 3,000 FPS so less cost to teach marksmanship to troops.

                So it all came down to C O S T!!!!
                Yes cost was the determining factor.
                Cheaper does not mean less effective for it's intended use.
                Rifles are cheaper and easier to produce and ammo is cheaper and a soldier can
                carry more easily.
                Most military members aren't gun savvy folks so it's far easier to train them with
                the 5.56 and the M-16.
                The round works, the rifle works.
                NATO must believe that.

                There is very little difference between the 5.56 NATO and the Russian 5.45 X 39.

                So what, pray tell, is the objection to the 5.56 Nato?????
                I have an AR in 5.56 and 7.62 X 51.
                5.56 mil spec ammo is cheaper and effective.

                I have an AR in 5.56 Nato and one in 7.62 X 41.

                Among several other rifles.


                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._NATO_firearms

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                • #23
                  Take any of your AR style rifle put it into salt water for 5 minutes then roll it into some nice beach sand now see how many rounds you get off before it stops (<30) Not with the AK. I've had mine fall into a mud filled hole picked it back up and was able to fire it with no problems for the rest of the day. The AK is just a more rugged system.

                  I was originally trained on the M-14 and when arriving in country I was handed a M-16 we called then Montel toy guns.

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                  • #24
                    I see the point about a rifle intended to go into combat when I must work
                    under the most awful conditions and used by people that may never have fired
                    a rifle before.
                    I'm no longer in a war zone so I'll take care of my ARs and I do trust them to work.
                    Frankly I deeply regret ever selling my AK civilian version.
                    Cheaper ammo, at least back then, and accurate enough and it always worked.
                    I'd shoot it, hand it in the garage without any attention at all.
                    A while later and repeat and NEVER a malfunction.
                    If I run into another priced right I'll grab it pronto.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      AKs are good rifles and they have a niche to fill in any shooter's arsenal. Mount a scope on them and you have a decent caliber rifle (X39 ammo) for medium size animals like deer and feral hogs. They are also reliable when other rifles will jam or fail to work. If I had only one choice for a survival rifle, I would take a good scoped AK in 7.62 X 39 caliber for my rifle without hesitation.

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                      • #26
                        My first military rifle was the M-14 that shoots 7.62x51 mm you can shoot offhand at 500 yards and if your any good you can hit a 9" pie plate. Then they gave us the Mattel toy called an AR-15. I was afraid I would break it saw many broken over the years. You just cannot abuse a weapons if its made out of plastic!

                        Shooting a 55 gram round is only going to piss off the enemy. Why do you think that cops and Special Ops people gave up on the 9 mm. It's too light and takes many rounds to put the enemy down.

                        Me even though I shoot expert with M-9, Glock, and S&W you still can only hit a target out to 50 yards but a shotgun with sabot can go out 200 yards. So give me a tricked out shotgun....

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                        • #27
                          I was on the verge of getting a AK variant in 5.56 in the 70s. Dealer had a couple at a gun show in Asheville, NC. Then for some reason no more were made. Never knew why but I have three 5.56 Mags for AK and nothing to use them in. Don't remember ever reading a post by someone that had one.`Anybody here got one?
                          Distinguished Rifleman High Power , Distinguished Rifleman Smallbore Prone, Presidents Hundred (Rifle), Palma Teams Member (2), Dewar Teams Member (2), Member 4 Man National Championship Smallbore AnySight Team, Certified Small Arms and Ammunition Test Director Aberdeen Proving Ground , Eagle Scout, AC4HT, NRA Benefactor Member, Firefighter I, Shriner

                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Hummer View Post
                            `Anybody here got one?
                            Hummer, I don't own any or have any friends that do either. As far as the platform I know that Arsenal builds an AK in 5.56 variant.

                            http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/milita...-5-56x45mm-ar/

                            or do you mean the Russian 5.45x39mm used in the AK-74?
                            I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              NO not the AK74. Here is the US History of the AK74 conducted in October of 1982. I had to keep this close hold till the AK74s got to be common. These pics were not published until about last November.

                              If you read the bottom section you will see Weaver did not include his analysis data for four years after the testing. Only his third test has ever been released for civilian use in 1990. We had two 55 gal drums of 5.45 ammo in storage (battlefield pickup) for years before we got the first rifle. The following month I was invited to Thanksgiving dinner at his house and he gave me the below photos I have posted below. He took a whole roll of 35MM pics of the whole event including the targets which he had computer plotted. If you upload the test report you will see he did a direct comparison with the AK74, M16, and other systems.

                              The way this is done is all target analysis at Aberdeen is fired with the point of aim being adjusted to point of impact. I shot a number of targets at 100 meters and tweaked the sights till he was satisfied that we had POA/POI interface. Then we moved back. As we moved back the rear sight was elevated. In this way not only the dispersion could be calculated with precision but the fire control system (rest of us call sights) were evaluated to determine how close the sights were to actual range conditions. This testing is conducted at like five feet above sea level on the same range all the other systems were analysed on.

                              The targets were removed and laid out and the distance to center of each bullet hole is measured in millimeters from a vertical line and a horizontal line and recorded. There are programs written that will reproduce shot plots for each target and can be re-produced on a graph that will not only calculate extreme group dispersion but calculate the mathematical center of each group. 3 10 rd groups are shot and recorded. Obviously this makes for a long day going down to change targets every ten shots. This event took a couple of weekends to conduct according to the firing record. This data was not published until four years later in 86 and again in 87 and again in 1990.

                              I contacted AMSAA and they researched their records and Weaver only wrote three reports where the data was produced prior to his retirement. I tried to contact him last last year and only then learned he had passed. I had the pleasure of working with him on one other project involving a concept feasibility analysis of constructing a 1500 yard Cal 50 Sniper Rifle Concept that was to be capable of MOA dispersion or less at 1500 yards. This ultimately led to the development of the 338 Lapua Magnum development work by Bob McCoy at Ballistics Research Lab in late 82/early 83. Last I saw Bob was summer of 83 and he told me a rifle was being constructed at that time for the test that would kick off three weeks later. Bob died before the first target was shot three weeks after I saw him at the Sniper RIfle Symposium chaired by Maj Bruce Wincentsin, USMC at Quantico. I was looking forward to that test but transferred to another Gov't agency in March of 1983. He was like 56 IIRC.


                              https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...8hLfGoDFg/edit

                              (Note: there is a typo on the pic saying it is a 1000 yard range. It is a 1500 yard range and we had another that went to 2500 yards)




                              Click on the little magnifying glass and it will come up nice and big for those of you over 40 ! ! ! ! haha.
                              Last edited by Hummer; 05-21-2018, 11:31 AM. Reason: clarification and repost of link that did not want to take for some reason.
                              Distinguished Rifleman High Power , Distinguished Rifleman Smallbore Prone, Presidents Hundred (Rifle), Palma Teams Member (2), Dewar Teams Member (2), Member 4 Man National Championship Smallbore AnySight Team, Certified Small Arms and Ammunition Test Director Aberdeen Proving Ground , Eagle Scout, AC4HT, NRA Benefactor Member, Firefighter I, Shriner

                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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                              • #30
                                Hummer, Thanks for the info and post. I don't know of anyone that purchased or has a smaller caliber AK. I used 30 cal. AK's in service but never liked them well enough to purchase one for myself.

                                Dale
                                Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

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