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  • #16
    Originally posted by Rustyshakelford View Post
    My opinion, would be if you are going to just have one, a shotgun in 12 guage is what I recommend.
    +1......see what you get when you ask a bunch of foil-heads about guns?

    Way to stir the pot, Brosia.....
    "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

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    • #17
      I'm new here, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt. I'll get to Brosia's specific case in a sec. A new shooter needs to determine what he or she wants a gun for, and what budget is available. Ideally, enough funds are available for several guns, but obviously this is not always the case. The specific need for the gun should determine the priority of purchases. If the budget allows, the new shooter should buy a bolt action .22LR (Long Rifle) rifle with decent iron sights, a .22LR revolver with adjustable iron sights, a bolt action rifle with decent iron sights in a common caliber (such as .270, .308, 30-06, etc.) and a revolver in .357 magnum or .44 magnum. Ideally the two rifles would be built by the same manufacturer and have similar sights and triggers, and the same for the two revolvers. The idea here is for the new shooter to learn to the most important parts of shooting: sight picture (how to look through sights) and trigger control. Also important is to avoid problems associated with more complex weapons and to be able to concentrate on shooting properly. After the new shooter is no longer a new shooter (several thousand rounds depending on the individual) then they can branch out into various other weapons and sighting systems as interests them.

      If budget does not allow this type of systematic approach, then primary use becomes the driving factor. A person who simply wants to learn to shoot should buy the bolt action .22LR rifle first. I stress bolt action because of the simplicity. A Ruger 10/22 is a fine rifle (I own one myself) for an experienced shooter but is not appropriate for the novice. They are finicky, hard to clean and maintain, and the iron sights are lousy.

      The new shooter who is primarily interested in hunting should either buy the bolt action rifle in a common caliber, or a shotgun. Mainly this depends on what they intend to hunt, and also on hunting regulations in your state. Keep in mind that shooting a shotgun is almost a completely different skill from shooting a rifle. Generally, the sights are entirely different, and also the technique. It is not ideal for a new shooter to buy a shotgun as a first gun if he or she later intends to become skilled with rifle and handgun. Not that you can't do it, it is just easier the other way around.

      If home defense is the objective, the pump shotgun is easily the best choice. A new shooter can learn to be proficient with a shotgun quickly, the shot pattern allows for some error caused by being woken up in the middle of the night, and there is a variety of choices in ammunition. Of course, the subject of home defense itself can fill volumes. The would-be home defender needs to think long and hard about whether or not he or she "has what it takes" to kill someone in their home. The case where the homeowner's gun is taken away and used against the homeowner is certainly overplayed by the anti-gun crowd, but should be a consideration nonetheless. Also the local laws are a serious consideration in some parts of the country. Be sure you know how badly the police and courts are going to screw up your life before you shoot the home invader.

      A quick note on use of handguns for defensive purposes. My personal opinion is that unless you practice shooting and all of the various weapon clearing drills (what to do when your gun malfunctions) and least twice a month, you should not consider using a semi-auto handgun for defense. They are simply too complicated unless you are very skilled. A revolver, on the other hand, is as simple as it gets. If you pull the trigger, it goes bang. In the unlikely case that it doesn't go bang, you simply pull the trigger again. The likelihood of having more than a single misfire in a quality revolver with quality ammo is almost non-existent.

      So, back to Brosia's case. My suggestion would be a good quality pump shotgun in 12 gauge if you don't mind the recoil or in 20 gauge if recoil is an issue. Unfortunately, the pump shotgun is not quite as simple as a revolver or bolt action rifle, but is still easy to learn to operate and maintain. You can find one which is suitable for both home defense and hunting, and different types of ammunition are available which are appropriate for defense, hunting and practice respectively. Keep in mind also, that the price of the gun is usually not more than about 70% (and maybe as little as 30%) of what it will cost you to get what you need. By the time you pay for ammunition, cleaning supplies, various accessories and tax, you will be shocked to find that the $400 gun ended up being $600 before you get out the door. Of course, if you do manage to have some money left, I still strongly recommend that bolt action .22 rifle.

      Good luck, and let us know what you finally decide on.

      Cheers,
      Craig

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      • #18
        Good advice, Craig....now head over to the introductions forum and make yourslef known, K?
        "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

        "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

        Comment


        • #19
          Mossberg 500 with pistol grip and a hand full of bird shot is ideal for home defense, and cheap too!
          ~Lyon~

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          • #20
            Birdshot is the last thing I would want. Its not going to stop anybody, just piss them off!
            "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches" Franklin

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            • #21
              I can't agree with that at all. If you are not experienced with a gun. The bird shot will spread more giving the unexperienced shooter a better chance of hitting the target. I can promise you that if anyone receives a shot from a 12 ga with bird shot in confined quarters(Home Protection) they will not be pissed off and keep coming. You are talking less than 10 yards.
              ~Lyon~

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              • #22
                Brosia

                I am looking at your original and follow-up statements regarding the acquisition of arms. I am paraphrasing your statements.

                "first purchase" and "no clue"

                I would suggest a Ruger 10/22. It is easy to operate, handles well, and is very accurate. Being semi-auto, it can be shot over and over, but too, one can load single rounds in the mag and shoot it one at a time. The 10/22 is very acceptable of many types of .22 ammo. You can readily find different types of ammo, and then choose the rounds that work best in your rifle and for your application. Too, ammo is inexpensive as compared to other calibers.

                I would stay clear of shotguns as a first choice. The recoil alone can take the interest to shoot out of a new shooter. You don't need to be intimidated, you need to build your skills. Once you have mastered the safety and mechanics of shooting, a shotgun can be very appropriate.

                A rifle will help you to develop good shooting posture and habits. If you were young shooters, ,mabye a bolt would be the best place to start, but since you are adults, the semi-auto is appropriate. Your children can get involved too.

                "$500 to spend"

                The first rifle will not take your entire budget. (I don't know the pricing in your neck of the woods, but a 10/22 in my area will set you back around $200) You will have some seed money for the next purchase. For once you start plinking with the .22 and build your skills and shooting confidence, you can then branch into other areas such as shotguns or bigger caliber rifles, or even different types of .22's.

                "talk to the guy at the shop"

                I would take the first purchase of a gun like the buying of a car. Shop around, prices are different from place to place. Handle the guns, ask questions. Just because you walk thru the doors, it does not mean that you have to buy.

                my .02
                greenhouse

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by cudalyon View Post
                  I can't agree with that at all. If you are not experienced with a gun. The bird shot will spread more giving the unexperienced shooter a better chance of hitting the target. I can promise you that if anyone receives a shot from a 12 ga with bird shot in confined quarters(Home Protection) they will not be pissed off and keep coming. You are talking less than 10 yards.
                  The point of a long gun (rifle or shotgun) is that it has a stock and a long sight radius that allow for more precise aiming. The point of a handgun is that it is small and easy to carry but also light enough that you can hold it in position to get a reasonable sight picture. A shotgun with a pistol grip is neither, and therefore about worthless for anything over 5 feet in a high adrenalin defense situation. Other than making your wrist sore, what can you accomplish with a pistol grip that you can't with a full length stock? Also, at home defense ranges birdshot will not spread more than buckshot, it just has more pellets. My $0.02.

                  Cheers,
                  Craig

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                  • #24
                    I really hope I'll never have to find out the hard way...who is right here...but I'll never be talked out of my 870 pistol grip, which I keep loaded with 00 buck/#4/00 buck/#4/00 buck.
                    "and therefore about worthless for anything over 5 feet in a high adrenalin defense situation."
                    Sorry...but I gotta disagree totally on that one. Not the best choice "UNDER" 5' (especially with a full stock)...but "over"?

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                    • #25
                      hope this helps

                      I bet your really confused about now. I have help two women with handguns in the past and they have both agreed after time it was a good starting point.
                      357 mag revolver and load it with 38 spl so the recoil is redused and it is a good all around self defense gun and with light bullets is good for hunting small game. Handguns are a bit hard to learn to shoot well but remember for defense you not shooting at long range it's usually 25-30 feet or less. Semi autos are OK but more complicated to use. The main thing is find one that feels good in YOUR hand.

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                      • #26
                        i agree with the ruger 10/22. very reliable and parts are endless

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                        • #27
                          Hi Brosia,
                          As said before, I guess youre really confused now! There's alot of good advise in there, some I agree with and some...well?
                          Ok, you dont have much experience with firearms, if any, so we want to keep it simple and dont want to break the bank. A .22 caliber rifle is a great start, either the ruger 10-22 semi auto(shoots faster more moving parts more difficult to clean) or a bolt action model ( slower fire rate, but simpler, less moving parts, easier to clean) The Semi-auto (Ruger 10-22) will cost you around $250, The bolt action ( walmart Savage with 10 shot clip) about $130. Either would be adequate. The shotgun scenario I'd have to stay with a pump action, even though the recoil is a little heavier I'd have to stay with the 12 gauge and start off with some lite-load shells. the ammo is cheaper, more plentiful and range of power pretty complete. I know Snal likes his pistol grip model but you aint Snal so get one with a full stock. A new Mossburg from Walmart will run you around $220, might be able to find a decent used one for around $175.
                          Now if you want to go further with a handgun, for you I'd recommend sticking with a revolver, simple, dependable, pull the trigger 6 times it goes bang 6 times. Get one with a 4 inch barrel chambered for .357 magnum, you can start out with .38 special ammo (same size bullet just less power. less kick) and work up to the stronger .357 stuff after you get proficient with the .38 loads. There are tons of these revolvers out there, you should be able to find a Taurus or S&W out there used for around $300 or less, probably get the Taurus new for around $400.
                          Hope that helps just remember what ever you get practice with it till youre comfortable with it then practice some more.
                          I hope that helps some!

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                          • #28
                            Lots of great advice in this thread. I'll throw in my two cents for what they're worth. For a revolver you may want to consider The Judge by Taurus. It shoots .45 & .410. For a semi auto I'd recommend a 1911. I prefer Kimber but there is a wide variety of good 1911s out there. Like others have said don't put a lot of stock in the people behind the counter at the gun stores. You should go visit a range that rents guns so that you can hold & fire the gun & see if its a match for you.

                            As far as a shotgun is concerned I'd recommend a 12 gauge pump. I have three but my favorite is the Serbu Super Shorty. I also have a Saiga & an FN police shotgun.

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                            • #29
                              I have to say after reading several of these threads where it comes to CCW I am strongly thinking of a snub revolvers with a big cal. like 45 and maybe putting some laser grips on it with blue dot ammo.

                              My dads buddy swears by a snub with laser sights as his backup when he is not on duty, he said the laser is enough to make all but the hardest criminal become more tame in a bad situation. He was on the swat team in Houston, TX for a long time.

                              Untill I have cash for that I will carry my little .32 everywhere I go.

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                              • #30
                                I think that the gun you feel fits you best is very important, ergonomics are often overlooked and the role emotions play in decision making (for both male and female) has been greatly understated untill the last decade when MRI was able to examine human brain functions in real time. While caliber is important your gut instincts are of equal value.
                                The road to serfdom is paved with free electric golf carts.

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