9mm Vs .45

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[greenhouse]

lots of variables

this is a "controversy" of many years

There are too many variables, too many choices of bullet types. Too many different scenarios.

I would have a tough time choosing one round over another, given all the "variables", such as bullet type.

For instance, I would be very confident choosing a 9mm with some form of hollow-point defense loads over a .45 that was loaded with standard military ball ammo, if that handgun was to be used to defend my home from the local hoodlum who is looking to smash and grab.

But if I was defending myself against para-military terrorists that were wearing multi-magazine carrying ballistic vests, storming thru my windows, I may opt for that .45 with good old hard ball ammo.

Looking forward to some interesting banter,
regards
greenhouse

[kenno]

There are a few reasons why I switched from 45 to 9mm:
In use world wide
Mag capacity
Quicker recovery due to less recoil
Newer bullet designs that improve expansion
Improved reliability of newer designs equals that of the 1911.

The 9mm is by no means perfect which is why the 40cal and 10mm's were invented but because these are not standard military rounds they will remain secondary to the 9mm in popularity.
If I had my druthers I would opt for a 10mm as it approaches the 41 mag in some loadings making the Glock 10mm the least expensive handgun that is suitable for protection from bear attack, a concern in my AO.

[Zombie Axe]

BLAME ZOMBIEAXE FOR THIS!

Ha ha ha ha... YOU took the bait!!! ;)

I prefer the .45 acp for self defense, but have been known to carry 9mm's as well. Like the ar vs. ak debate, I have a use for BOTH.

If you have never heard of ferFAL who posts alot on his blog www.ferfal.blogspot.com you should read some of his experiences about surviving the economic hard times in Argentina. One common theme throughout is how multiple bad guys will usually jump you when leaving home, entering or exiting you car, and when stopped in traffic! He recommends a high capacity pistol that is compact and provide a lot of lead downrange! I can't think of a handier pistol than a Glock 17 or 19 with a 33 round magazine. Pretty compact weapon for confined spaces! Granted his situation is different than ours here, because we are liable for EVERY ROUND we fire, there is a lot of 'break contact' shooting. IOW to keep their heads down after taking a few bad guys out to get away. Or probably the biggie, shooting while driving away without having to reload!

As a side note, Scherer makes 25 round Glock 21 mags... don't waste your time or money on these:(

I personally don't see any good in shooting a bunch of rounds to keep someone from shooting me with today's 'sue me' society, but it works in the Army (indirect fire) and some gangs (former military members) have used this technique on police officers to pin them down and kill them :( As I said I am not advocating that tactic when the bad guys are a plenty, but in a bad situation it may the thing that saves your life!

So for a high volume of fire, ease of shooting by beginners (mild recoil), availibilty/economy of ammo, and effectiveness (with the right bullet choices) I think the 9mm wins.

However there are now .45's like Para-ord with their high cap 1911's, Glock 21 (13 rounds), SA and FN with their,iirc, 14 round magazines that easily close in on the Glock 17's 17 round mags, so that arguement (other than overall size of the weapon) is a mute point!

The point is... choose the weapon that YOU can shoot with accurately, consistently, and reliably with! With the correct bullet choices BOTH are formidable weapons. I don't feel undergunned with a 9mm but I try to always go with .45 cause I like the way it shoots and performs and it gives me that 'warm fuzzy feeling'!

Someone on GlockTalk has a sig line that is hillarious. Think it goes like this, "to all those folks who were killed by a 9mm... get up, you are not dead... you were shot with an inferior round!" not an exact quote but you get the idea :D

I love the 10 mm, it is imho an almost perfect round... my ONLY issue with it, is that ammo is so expensive for it... aka no surplus like for 9mm and 45 acp :(

I wouldn't want to be shot with either ;)

[Ronald_THM]

personally im all about the 40S&W. I have fired both 45ACP and 9mmpara, both have their pros and cons.

9mm.
Cheap
alot of options
cool expanding bullets
not that i would ever try but ive heard 9mm will bounce off a windshield.

45ACP.
proven man stopper
expensive
tons of surplus

I have had this same discussion with my dad and grandfather many times, dad is a .45ACP guy, while pop prefers 9mm (and 44mag for some reason?). I took the the midground and all they can say is its not a .45/9mm. oh well. If I had to pick one or the other, i would prolly go with the .45 simply because in a self defence situation .45 doesnt have to expand.

[kenno]

Thank the Maker that no-one has flamed this thread yet!
I have seen deer killed with a 2" 38 Spl. and cattle dropped with a 22LR and then there have been hopped-up perps who have taken huge damage and kept on going. In the end it is all about circumstances and bullet placement.
Contrived cotroversey sells alot of magazines and add space ($) but has little to do with reality.
In the end it is for each person to make the decision to carry the firearm that suits thier situation and circumstances best. Some folks need a small belly blaster, others pack a full sized handgun. I usually carry a gun that can handle a bear and I don't bother hiding it, but sometimes I pack a small 22LR in a vest pocket, it all depends on the circumstances.

[Ronald_THM]

bug_out, I could see this happening, if the windshield in question was far enough away and was at a step angle (like a camaro or firebird perhaps) then maybe it would be deflected. stranger things have happened. im not saying it happens alot but im sure it COULD happen.

[kenno]

Back in the day the guy that started Last Chance Body Armour made a vidio, part of which was shooting at windshields with different caliber firearms at fairly close range.
Most ammo fired did indeed deflect off of american 1970's windshields, almost all pistol and carbine rounds deflected. It was not untill 308 rifle rounds were used that penetration was assured. I cannot remember the title of the vid. "Dangerous Weapons" or something like that but it was an eye opener.
PS
Concerning shooting at automobiles: Never, ever, ever shot a 45ACP at the front bumper of a 1954 Cadilac! I did this in 1970 and discovered that the heavy guage spring steel of said bumper will literaly throw the bullet right back at you! I was struck a glancing blow on the outside edge of my right calf and my leg went numb. I was afraid to look at my leg, knowing that there would be alot of blood, there was only a hole in my Levis!

[Rustyshakelford]

What about the .25 auto? You forgot that one.


Kidding of course.


I am a revolver buff. I will take a .38 or .357 over either of them. Although, I really have been eyeing a Browning Hi-Power. For an auto, I really like the design.

[beebopcop]

I wouldn't touch this debate with someone else's computer let alone mine. Not No, But HELL NO!!
BBC

[Zombie Axe]

I wouldn't touch this debate with someone else's computer let alone mine. Not No, But HELL NO!!
BBC

ROTFLMAO BBC:D

On the topic of defelecting and glancing bullets, Shooting Gallery (hosted by Michael Bane) on the Outdoor Channel did a show on how bullets could deflect/glance off of a brick wall and why you only wanted to expose as little as you could when shooting from cover. So yeah, I bet some bullets do deflect off of windshields under the right circumstances.

Yeah .25 can kill you stone cold dead, can empty a 9mm into a crazed bad guy and he may still kick your arse, a .45 can fail to stop a bad guy (but he is one tough SOB!!! LOL) but like kenno said "In the end it is all about circumstances and bullet placement."

A relative had a hard time taming the .38 snubbie she purchased for self defense. She couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it. I switched her to a .22 and she was making GOOD hits on water jugs from 4-20 yards. She couldn't repeat this with the .38 snubbie though. She could hit with a full size 4" .357 shooting .38's. So I told her, "either get a full size 686 or a .22 because she could hit with them both". She replied, " I like the snubbie better and feel like that is the gun for me." I then replied, "A miss with a .38 is still a miss, and a hit with .22 repeatedly is a HIT". She got the point and the 686 :)