Going off the Record

[TheDoc]

Ok, so I've contemplated buying a firearm for a while but my concern is being on government records for purchasing a firearm. I live in Colorado. Sorry for the ignorance but should I be concerned? And if I should, what should I do to stay out of records?

I did quick search and didn't find any other posts but I'm on my phone so sorry if this is a repeat post.

Dan

[TacSKS]

Hey Doc

I'm not sure about Colorado specifically, but pretty much the only way to buy a gun without a paper trail is to make a private transaction with another individual. These do not require any paperwork. You can find a seller in your area by checking classified adds such as "Steals and Deals". I've also heard about people planning to start an online system similar to craigslist for guns, but not sure if it's up and running yet. You could also try posting a Wanted add on popular shooting forums and see who might be selling near you and willing to meet half-way. I would suggest meeting at a range so you could test fire before buying.

You can also make private purchases person-to-person at gun shows. I made a private purchase at a gun show just over a year ago. I paid cash for a rifle right off a gentleman's back and have no regrets at all. Any gun from a vendor with a table requires paperwork. But anything you buy from an individual person-to-person does not require any paperwork (except in CA-check Colorado laws). Cash transactions person-2-person are my favorite way of buying and not leaving a paper trail. However, beware of gun show vendors who offer to step out into the parking lot to sell you a gun "person-to-person" or "off the record". This is illegal and law enforcement watches for this!

And of course before shooting any used gun be sure to carefully inspect it for defects or worn out parts that could be unsafe.

[TheDoc]

Thanks Tac. I don't know much about firearms yet which is a large part of why I want to buy one, so I will have to have my friend who shoots often come with me to purchase it. Should be fun :)

[TheDoc]

Btw, should I take lessons at a shooting range? Or any sort of safety course? Seeing as this would be a first time purchase... Or just go shooting with a friend and learn from him?

[TacSKS]

It's great having a knowledgable friend to learn with. While I'm sure your friend is perfectly competent and would be an adequate teacher, I would really look into taking some sort of introductory class that will include safety and basic firearms handling. Most ranges offer some really good starter courses that will help you get the basics of sight picture, trigger pull, grip, stance, etc. With shooting it's definitely easier to learn good habits from the start then to unlearn the bad ones. Either way, get out there and have some fun!

Just out of curiosity, what are you thinking about getting? FYI pistols are great fun, but the learning curve for a pistol is much steeper than for a rifle or shotgun. Quality pistols are also fairly expensive ($350+). 22 rifles are very affordable and are probably best for new shooters as you can do a ton of shooting for very little $$$$ and learn all the skills needed for more powerful firearms ($100-250).
A used pump shotgun would be very easy to find and offers more flexibility than any other single gun ($200-300). With appropriate barrels and loads a shotgun can be used to hunt anything from squirrels to elk. You can also get into fun shooting sports such as skeet or sporting clays. In my opinion, nothing beats a short-barrel pump 12 gauge for home defense. If I could only own one gun it would be a shotgun.

[TheDoc]

I have been considering purchasing his ruger gp100. He has hardly used it and it would include a holster, two quick reloads, and a changeable grip. As well, I was considering buying a rifle to practice with since I know the gp100 is a bit of a beast to get started on.

He is offering the gp to me for 400 and I know he his very trust worthy so that would be my first purchase. I figure a revolver is a solid reliable sidearm and it will last me a lifetime.

I really wasn't considerig a 22 becauce if SHTF, it would be a little weak. Now that you mention it though, maybe it would be a better option?

Feel free to correct me on anything i've said (eg. Revolver being reliable, etc.). I need all the help I can get ;) but lik i said, the gp100 is what I am considering for the long run. What I pracite on for day to day (cheap ammo, good habits, etc) is a second purchase I'm considering making.

[TacSKS]

The gp100 seems like a great buy. $400 would be a pretty fair deal with the accessories. I really like ruger revolvers, they're well made, accurate, and handle well. You're right; revolvers are generally very reliable and Ruger's are among the best. Plus I really like being able to train with more affordable 38specials.

Any gun is better than no gun, but a 22 wouldn't be my first choice for defense either. I read a really interesting study recently that included the probability of a 1 shot stop for various calibers. A 357 Hollowpoint was around 95% vs about 25% with a 22. They simply don't have the knockdown power to stop an aggressor in their tracks.

However, they do have a few real pros if SHTF. If food goes scarce, A 22 will help you put small game on your plate. 22ammo is much lighter and smaller then any other ammo, allowing you to carry a lot more rounds if you're on foot. Also a 22 is much quieter than other rounds and a single well placed shot could help you keep a low profile. If SHTF, you're also more likely to scavenge 22 as it is so common and readily available (of course it not hard to stock up a couple boxes of bulk ammo either).

If I was you; I'd go ahead and get the revolver. It's a great gun, at a fair price, from a trusted friend. You won't regret it.

[TheDoc]

Thanks Tac. I will be saving up my money for a 22. I like the idea of having a smaller caliber that can be carried easier and that I would be able to hypothetically find more rounds if I ran out\. I appreciate the help. The other option have been considering is learning how to shoot a bow. I would imagine that would a great survival weapon as well.

[cbprice797]

A .22 is not a bad gun for a SHTF situation. You can use it to kill pests with, hunt small game to eat with, and if you have one of the higher capacity magazines in it.... like the 50 round magazine I have. Well putting 20 or so .22 rounds into someone will seriously discourage them from bothering you. You can get a new Ruger 10-22 for $220 at Wally World but I have never seen anyhting but the synthetic stocks there. I got a new one with a walnut stock for $225 at a local pawn shop and it was still in the original box.

You can get 5000 rounds for a couple of hundred dollars and learn the basics that will carry over to any other rifle or shotgun you might get later. So overall I think a .22 is not really that bad of a SHTF weapon. Just dont plan on it being really effective for home defense or holding of a horde of zombies. But discouraging one or two people from bthering you... yea it will suffice.

[TacSKS]

yeah I love my 10-22. I got mine 8-10yrs ago for $150 new. Used to shoot it in competition and have easily put 10,000 rounds through it without any real problems. Wore out the original magazine, got a new one, and it's right back on pace. I probably only cleaned it 4-5 times. Unbelievable reliability!!! And I'm confident that 20 rounds center of mass would bring down even the biggest attacker. But I have better tools for home defense :)

I also shot a Parker triple cam compound in competition. Archery is a great hobby and great fun. It's also a pretty good work out for back and shoulders muscles you wouldn't normally develop.

But if SHTF, instead of a traditional bow, I would much rather have a quality crossbow. It is so much easier to make accurate shots at longer ranges. Also fires like a rifle, making it much quicker to learn. I really like the idea of a crossbow for survival as it allows near-silent kills on game or hostiles at extended range. Reusable ammo is a huge advantage, but we gotta remember that arrow fletching (feather or vane) do not hold up real well to extended usage. They have an annoying tendency to get messed up when practicing, and definitely when hunting. Anyone considering adding a crossbow to their survival tools will need abundant arrows (at least 12), or better yet, a way to repair your own fletching. If forced to choose between the two I wouldn't take a crossbow over a high-powered rifle. But it is certainly a worth-while addition to the survival toolbox.

[MasterMynd]

As far as gun safety and all that goes, a really good class is the hunters education classes that are offered everywhere. You learn all about the different types of rifles and shotguns. Safety and proper handling is a big part of the class, and you also get to learn about hunting techniques and how to determine and make a clean kill. Its really valuable knowledge and the game wardens that teach them really love their job and are always willing to impart knowledge to anyone who asks. Best of all they are free, at least it is here in NC, but since its a Federal class its probably free everywhere else too. Check with your local wildlife commission on class times and locations and I'm sure you'll find one that fits your schedule.

[TacSKS]

Hunter's Ed courses are a great suggestion for free safety lessons. I've taken the courses several time myself (my parents are instructors) and learned something everytime. It's well worth the 10hrs, even if you aren't big into hunting.

[denvernative321]

here in Colorado you dont need a backround, bill of sale or any paperwork of any kind for a private party sale. Some people will ask you to sign something but it is your right to refuse. I have turned down a few firearm purchases for bill of sale issues. Go to http://www.co-ar15.com/co-ar15.htm there are lots of folks that will be happy to sell without anything. you do need to prove that you are a Colorado citizen with a valid ID but I cant remember the last time I was asked for my ID. Also I found the best place to find cheap guns is Craigslist if you just wait until you find one cheap enough. the last two guns I bought were steals Marlin 336 in 30-30 brand new with leather sling for 150$ and a Mini 14 with scope mags case in Stainless steel for 450.

[laoma]

There is a new version of an old naval 22lr survival gun now called a AR7.....you can take the 3 major components apart in minuts AND PUT THEM INTO THE HOLLOW HANDLE! it was first made by Armalite, then charter arms took it, now it's made from someone else, I just ordered one, can't wait to get it, it would sure be a lot easier holding onto this one as opposed to the G3 I just bought

[TacSKS]

Hey congrats on the purchase. I'm guessing it's the Henry Survival Rifle. I'm jealous, been trying to find a reasonably priced camo version for a few months now.

P.S. Here is a previous thread about them you might enjoy

http://xcolony.com/x/showthread.php?3412-Henry-US-Survival-Rifle&highlight=henry

Once you get to test it some let us know what you think!