Lmt rifles

[Bayou Blaster]

Not Sure You Will Want One?

Bayou i was doing some research and i looked up the SOCOM II. I want one badly but 1700.00 smackers. Is it reliable and do you have to clean it often like an ar-15? Does it handle all ammo well? Thanks

Mechanically there is absolutely nothing wrong with the SOCOM II. It has been very reliable with decent accuracy for a 16 1/4 inch barrel with a red dot. Getting about 1-2 MOA @ 100yds. It may do better benched with a scope. It's a CQB (Close Quarters Battle) rifle with power, punch and penetration to spare.

I guess overtime it did not grow on me as some of my other firearms. At 10.9 pounds EMPTY, it's NO lightweight for sure and I'm not getting any younger. The muzzle break works better than advertised at controlling both muzzle rise and recoil. More so than a standard full size M1A-1 (M-14 variant). That muzzle break and shorter barrel of the SOCOM II unfortunately makes the firearm bark quite loudly. Anytime a brake is put on any rifle expect the report to be much louder. At night it has a more pronounced muzzle flash than a typical M-14 variant with flash hider.

My particular SOCOM II variant does not have the upper 1913 style rail that extends to the rear of the receiver; so mounting a conventional scope is more difficult. There is a version where the top rail goes all the way back to the rear of the reciever. I sometimes mount a Holo Sight or Red Dot. The front post does contain a Tritium insert and works well in darkness. The Vltor (Quad-Rail) assemblies lower rail can be removed making it easier to grasp. I've installed a pistol grip and light assembly on the lower rail. The pistol grip helps balance the firearm better. These firearms do not come with chromed lined barrels. Lastly the SOCOM II does not have a forward sling swivel.

As far as maintenance, it does not need to be kept as clean as an AR-15. The side of the reciever channel for the op rod and bolt lugs should be lightly greased. It did jammed (stove piped) once with Surplus South African 7.62 x 51 NATO during break-in. I chalked it up to old ammo and break-in. One thing to keep in mind is that .308 winchester is NOT NATO ammo. 7.62 x 51mm is NATO ammo. The difference being that the civilian .308 has more pressure.

I've since purchased an M1A-1 in the Scout Squad variant with the walnut stock. I'm thinking of relieving the SOCOM II of it's Synthetic stock for the Scout Squad. I'm also considering reverting the SOCOM II to a SOCOM 16 (No Cluster Rail). May go with a Vortex style flash suppressor as well (Not Cheap). My son has taken a shine to the SOCOM II (He's over 6ft tall) and built like a tank. He may end up with it. For now it sits in one of the safes. I just enjoy my two FAL clones, Scout Squad and other firearms more. I've also got a Saiga 308 with 16 inch barrel that I'll be converting to a conventional pistol grip and stocked configuration after finishing up several other projects. I bought it with the intention of being a poor mans SOCOM 16. It's definately much lighter/less expensive than the SOCOM II. FN FAL clones can be had with 16 inch barrels as well. Price for a new DSA FAL is comparable to the SOCOM series. Accuracy of the FALS while respectable, never approach that of the long barreled M1A1 (M-14 variants). Ergonomically I do like the FALs better. They are also very reliable under harsh/austere conditions as are the Springfields. My two FAL clones being an Century R1A1 that was built right and an Entreprise Arms L1A1. Keep doing your research. As always, hope this helps.:)

[neverknow]

Holy #$%@

Bayou i was doing some research and i looked up the SOCOM II. I want one badly but 1700.00 smackers. Is it reliable and do you have to clean it often like an ar-15? Does it handle all ammo well? Thanks

[Bayou Blaster]

What would you choose for shtf bayou?

A lot would be dependant on the situation/circumstances YOU believe you would find yourself in and location/terrain in your AO (Area of Operation).

If I'm bugging out it will be with family, all will carry 9mm high cap handguns with at least two spare mags per, same caliber to reduce logistics. You can carry more of this ammo by weight than say a 45 ACP. While it may not afford the stopping power of a 45 ACP cartridge the high capacity does offer extended suppressive fire in a defensive situation if you have to engage multiple bad guys and the caliber is such that all family members can handle it adequately. Handguns are for immediate short range engagements. One of the rifles in the group may be in .308 caliber ie FAL, SOCOM II/16 Saiga .308 or Scout Squad. The .308 winchester cartridge turns cover into concealment and has a greater effective standoff distance. The other rifles will be either AR-15 carbines or AKS-47 variants.

My personal firearms will be my All Stainless CZ-75B 9mm handgun and Bulgarian SLR-95 AKS with folding stock (922r compliant) or M-4 variant. I like the idea of a folding stock rifle as it's handier/quicker to remove from a vehicle if you have to defend yourself. In Louisiana your vehicle is considered an extention of your home so you can travel with firearms within the state without the need for a CCW.

I'm still mulling the SHTF rifle as each (AKS or M-4) have their own drawbacks. From a maintenance/reliability standpoint I would have to lean towards the AKS. For accuracy, ergonomics and optics flexibility its the M-4. If I decided on an AR-15 variant I would also have to carry spare parts (Bolts, Firing Pins and Extractors) to feel safe with it at a bug out location. With the AKS variants I'm NOT fearful of breakage/failure at an inopportune moment. If you are going to pin me to an answer on the rifle it would be my 7.62 x 39 SLR-95 with folding stock. If in a secure location it would be an M-4 for normal defensive engagement zones and a 308 or 30-06 firearm for standoff distances. I guess you can tell by now I'm a bit of a Gun Whore (Excuse the French). If spare parts were easily available I might consider something else (Sig 556?). Good luck with your ultimate selection. Let me know your opinions on this and possible candidate or firm choice.:)

[neverknow]

What would you choose for shtf bayou?

[Bayou Blaster]

Im asking cause im thinking about getting a legal short barrel and makeing it with a colt 6920 lower and a lmt 10.5 barrel. What do you think bayou?

When it comes to AR-15 derivatives they tend to get really finicky and ammo sensitive when you are considering either an SBR (Short Barreled Rifle) or pistol platform. This becomes more of a problem when your building your own. Remember all NFA rules apply.

.223 cal and 5.56 x 45 cartridges are really optimized to be fired from long barreled AR-15 variants. When you reduce barrel length you severely and detrimentally affect bullet velocities, accuracy and ballistic coefficient to a great degree. The other thing that happens is that the direct impingement gas system suffers greatly as there is consequently less pressure (exhaust propellant gases) being utilized to operate the system reliably. The hole that is drilled into the barrel for gas bleed (Gas Block) has to be changed to compensate for the resulting loss in gas pressure/volume. But because of the physical constraints of the gas tube orifice diameter, you can only compensate to a very small degree. Additionally buffer weights are changed accordingly. Even when one finds ammunition the firearm will function with, they still tend to hiccup more than your carbine or standard length variants.

I’ve seen these types of firearms short cycle, stove pipe and fail to chamber/extract more times than I’ve seen them actually work. Even the pistol variants sold by well known manufactures are not immune to these problems. They all also have a tendency to run dirtier than their counterparts. If you find one that runs good consider yourself fortunate, but I guarantee it won’t be flexible with a variety of ammo. Some people have had no alternative but to hand load for their individual SBRs to run semi-reliably. In a SHTF or SP scenario you would be better served with a carbine variant or a rifle which employs a folding stock. AKS-47 type SBRs are surprisingly much more reliable in this configuration. Personally I would prefer a reliable high quality/capacity handgun in place of an SBR or AR type pistol.

Keep in mind also that both report (noise) and flash will significantly increase and distance between sights is reduced further affecting accuracy. SBRs are not my thing but if I were getting one? It would not be an AR-15 variant. You would be better served in this case again by a handgun, carbine or AKS type SBR. Hope this helps with your decision making process.

[neverknow]

Im asking cause im thinking about getting a legal short barrel and makeing it with a colt 6920 lower and a lmt 10.5 barrel. What do you think bayou?

[Bayou Blaster]

Anybody know of lmt ar-15?

I've never fired one, however as of late (post election) it looks like they have been cutting corners to keep up with demand. For example the inside of the gas keys may or may not be chromed. Gas keys should be chromed internally. Some of the gas keys in recent models are made using a MIM (Metal Injected Molding) process. You'll notice the MIM mark between the gas key screws. These MIM Gas keys when they are staked to retain the gas key screws crack/chip off the material it is suppose to displace to retain the screws.

Their uppers and lowers have always shown additional forging flashing which is never milled down as compared to other manufactures. The mag wells are also not as beveled or have a pronounced material in this area. I would look over this firearm very carefully, especially the gas key and screws for proper staking. These firearms have been very popular in the past but right now I'm not too sure I would own one.

If you are looking for a quality M-4 Type AR-15 variant I would recommend Colt's LE 6920 or better still the 6940 series. The lower receiver is close to mil-spec, however it is not fully milled to accept a full-auto sear system; not a big deal as I don't see the need/use for full auto. They do incorporate the conventional pivot/retaining pins. Whatever firearm you do end up with make sure it's chambered for 5.56, that way you can can shoot both the civilian .223 cal and NATO 5.56 x 45 chamberings.

I run Colts, DPMS, Bushmasters and Amalgamations of parts. I don't lose sleep as far as shooting one over the other. If the SHTF I'm not sure I'll be using an AR-15 type platform. What ever variant you get, make sure the firearm incorporates the M-4 feed ramps/geometry. Increases feeding reliability. http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/feedramps.jpg

I also prefer the chromed lined bores and chambers. It facilitates cleaning while prolonging barrel life. Note: DPMS barrels don't come chromed lined unless requested/special ordered. They normally are 4140 chromoly steel for greater accuracy. Chrome lining does affects accuracy. Hope this helps. As always Good Luck with your decision.

[neverknow]

Anybody know of lmt ar-15?