water, gas/diesel, and propane storage

[Applejack]

We had enough for 2 years for 8 people and that is now down to maybe one year. With the AAAA climate controlled storage unit. I am going to build that back up.. But a lot of non food items will be in it as well. Charcoal, cat little and water filters that I have for extra. My berkey will stay at house with 2 extra sets of filters. I have about 10 water cans each will hold 6 gallons of water. We have had to use them in past for hurricane season. Will keep them at house for now as we are getting ready to fill them up for this years hurricane season.. We have been blessed with the fact we have not had it bad where we are but my daughter lost water and electric where she used to live as well as the neighborhood next to ours. All we lost was electric and no damage in our neighborhood. But you never know as it only takes one hurricane.

[Murphy]

Murphy, good point... lets say a midsize U-Haul... lol

Packed top to bottom the entire 17 feet? WOW.. I don't have that much food.. I have enough for three adults and a child for a year if we ration and don't count what we find outdoors. If we add in the fruit trees, wild game and the garden, I could probably go two years..

[CountryGuy]

AJ, hope your family is safe and out of harms way. We've been getting crazy rain and flooding up here also. worst isn't right here where I'm at but about 25-35 miles east of us. then was more rain this week. week before last there were people that in 2 days got 8-10 inches of rain, that's almost never heard of in this area.

Murphy, good point... lets say a midsize U-Haul... lol

[Applejack]

These are all good points. Hubby and I only eat 2 meals a day and have been doing so for a long time.. Breafast and dinner. We are normally so busy during the day, we forget about lunch. I have heard of people using coffee grounds two or three times for making coffee just to save on coffee. I have not tried it but understand that each time you reuse the grounds the coffee is weaker with each pot. Don't know if I want to try that but might be something to think about if we ever have a situation where we will have to ration. All this rain we have had has caused farmers in Pungo VA to loose a lot of their crops so I see higher prices coming to the stores within the next few months. We have had anywhere from 5 to over 12 inches of rain depending on what area you live in the tidewater area.. Flooding as well has happened in many places. My home town of Lynchburg is in trouble now as the College Lake river is overflowing and the dam may not hold. I talked with some cousins of mine and they said they are doing evacuations now. So many reasons to be prepared.

[Murphy]

Good points Murphy and it also brings up the fact that just because we're maybe sitting on a truckload of food, we still need to ration out that food to make it go longer and to better blend in. Hey we all know that the majority of the US overeats and we consume way to many calories. Yes we and our kids will complain as we adjust to eating smaller portion sizes but it'll make food last longer, we will loose weight and we won't be the "fat" family on the block while everyone else is wandering around having lost 6 pant sizes. Also the smell of cooking food travels a great distance so also something to keep in mind as you cook up that pot of chilly or stew, hungry neighbors will have very keen noses.

Oh man, I have so much to do to convert my property into defense mode, I'll probably lose weight just being so darn active. I have almost a thousand 55 gal drums to be positioned and filled with soil for ballistic barriers, chain link fence to go over windows, 5kW of off grid solar to set up, neighbors to organize, parameter alarms to set up, etc etc. I'll be busy for weeks and probably dropping lots of my fat because of it.

As for that truckload of food... what kind of truck are we talking about???? LOL After I read that, I came to the conclusion that if I emptied out all my storage shelves, I'd probably have about 3 to 4 pickup trucks loaded just in food..

[CountryGuy]

While keeping your preps a secret is obviously wise, the fact is, once SHTF happens, there's no way you're going to keep those preps a secret for very long.

When everyone else is losing weight really quickly and you've barely lost a notch in your belt, it won't take a rocket surgeon to figure out you have food.

Out where I'm at, I can say I'm collecting pollen from cattails, got lucky with shooting a few deer, rabbits, and show them how I can catch squirrels as well as some of the local wild edibles. and we also have a lot of ponds around here so I can claim I'm eating a lot of fish, frogs, etc..

But that won't apply to everyone.. not everyone will be able to reasonably make those claims and have them be believable.

Good points Murphy and it also brings up the fact that just because we're maybe sitting on a truckload of food, we still need to ration out that food to make it go longer and to better blend in. Hey we all know that the majority of the US overeats and we consume way to many calories. Yes we and our kids will complain as we adjust to eating smaller portion sizes but it'll make food last longer, we will loose weight and we won't be the "fat" family on the block while everyone else is wandering around having lost 6 pant sizes. Also the smell of cooking food travels a great distance so also something to keep in mind as you cook up that pot of chilly or stew, hungry neighbors will have very keen noses.

[grumpygremlin]

depends where one lives I suppose, in a big city or a large urban centre it would be difficult to keep things secret for long, "walls have ears" as they used to say in WW2, but in a low population area like mine would probably be a different matter.
I really think things this side of the pond would be a bit different to the US, our population dosent have the pioneer history that you do, and most are reliant on the state or official systems for their daily survival- even if they aren't actually aware of that fact- most have no clue about food or nature or farming, give it a couple of months post SHTF and the population will be a fraction of what it once was and looters will be a minor problem if a problem at all.

[Murphy]

While keeping your preps a secret is obviously wise, the fact is, once SHTF happens, there's no way you're going to keep those preps a secret for very long.

When everyone else is losing weight really quickly and you've barely lost a notch in your belt, it won't take a rocket surgeon to figure out you have food.

Out where I'm at, I can say I'm collecting pollen from cattails, got lucky with shooting a few deer, rabbits, and show them how I can catch squirrels as well as some of the local wild edibles. and we also have a lot of ponds around here so I can claim I'm eating a lot of fish, frogs, etc..

But that won't apply to everyone.. not everyone will be able to reasonably make those claims and have them be believable.

[grumpygremlin]

leaving a garage door wide open is not OPSEC, the less they see the less they know.

[Applejack]

A friend of mine here has like 30 military opaque plastic water containers that look jerry cans and cost $37.00 each! He also has three months of stored food, mostly dry.

Problem is it is openly visible in his garage which is left open most of the time. So his neighbors can easily be aware of what he has and if "push comes to shove", they will probably be coming to take it from him.

How much ammo is enough to protect your family and the supplies you stored to keep them?

And since we'll be probably killing people to to that, are there any good recipes for human meat, since I bet meat will be scarce.

If that offends you, (as the thought of it does me), how do you reconcile everything else on the topic of survival? I mean if things get so bad that your best efforts have left you out of food with your supplies run out, isn't that the next logical step?

Guess I'll have to add Fava Beans and a nice Khianti to my food storage list!

My neighbor across street from me has done the same thing. Garage door is wide open and they have shelves sitting in middle of floor full of canned foods. Not a good idea when I can see it from my front door.

[CountryGuy]

One of our BOL's is my parents place where I grew up. They're a bit out in the sticks for that area and a big benefit is that we have natural gas there so we've got damn near an eternal heat and fuel source. We've been working for a few years on laying back some spare appliances like hot water tank(should need additional hot water capacity), spare furnace with maintenance parts, a spare stove with parts, and extra black iron pipe, flex pipe, etc should we need to do any future plumbing. With what is already in place and with the spares I could see those things lasting us 30+ years if need be. We have been talking about going with a whole house natural gas fired generator but to be honest they are freaking expensive.

Additionally if need be there is 1000+ gal fuel oil tank in the ground that used to be for the fuel oil fired boiler till it died after about 35 years and was replaced with a high efficiency gas unit. the tank was drained when they switched out the furnace but we can fill it and have storage that most people wouldn't have a clue it's there.

[Murphy]

Fuel, which falls under energy in my book, is something I've given a great amount of thought to. I've analyzed the pro's and con's to each type of fuel and have systematically applied what I've learned to various SHTF requirements.

So here's what I've come up with.

Propane: Expensive on a BTU basis, lasts forever in storage, not renewable once you run out. Storing propane is fine but it shouldn't be counted on for long term use that extends past a few months. Propane is expensive and once you're out, your out. So if you're prepping for some short term and localized SHTF event (hurricane, earthquake etc), propane is a good fuel, but if you're prepping for a long duration SHTF event, like an EMP, then propane should only be a part of your energy strategy, not a stand alone resource.

Do not store propane and think its going to run your generator for a few months because that's not going to happen unless you have a lot of propane and a small generator. Economically this would be a poor choice. Considerations for storing propane should be for cooking only in my book.
Propane has one big advantage over almost all other fuels and that is it can be used for heating inside a home. This is a big advantage in colder climates but not a reason to base one's strategy on propane alone.

Gasoline: In the same boat as propane but has higher energy density and its a more flexible fuel since most things run on gas. The problem with gas is that it goes bad and treating it for longer duration storage is expensive and only has limited effectiveness if you're not able to store the gasoline in a cool place. Its also an extreme fire hazard while in storage. Gasoline should not be a stand alone energy strategy but storing three to four months of it is wise.

Diesel: Beats propane and gasoline hands down. Diesel fuel has a higher energy content (more energy per gallon) than either propane or gasoline. Its stores for much much longer time frames than gas,(but not as long as propane), and diesel doesn't have the same hazardous storage problems of gasoline as it takes a bit of work to get diesel to ignite. The problem with diesel is that not many things can't use it as a fuel and its frequently more expensive than either propane or gasoline. You also can't burn it inside your home like propane.

Diesel is actually a renewable resource if one learns to make BioDiesel or operate a Pyrolysis reactor. Although you won't be able to use it in the winter, biodiesel runs great in diesel engines.

I store some of all fuels. I have about a hundred gallons of propane, about 30 in gasoline, and about 300 in diesel fuel. But that storage is for short term use during the initial (3 to 6 months?) of chaos of a long duration SHTF event where our primary concern an attention is spent on security and defensive issues.

Once the chaos subsides and life settles back into a quasi-routine, our primary energy source is PV Solar (8kw), wood, and gassifier technology using Pyrolysis reactors. Wood gassification can run an internal combustion engine, a natural gas water heater, propane heater, or a variety of other items that need gasoline or natural gas to run. And wood is plentiful and renewable. We use Pyrolysis reactors to turn plastics into diesel fuel and various other petroleum based oils. While plastics are not renewable, there's almost as much plastic in our lives as their is wood in the forests.

In short, if you're SHTF plans are for short duration events, looking to common hydrocarbon fuels (gas, propane, diesel) as a solution is an easy and effective strategy.. However, if you're plans involve something of a longer duration that may last years or more, you really need to be focusing on renewable energy sources that don't run out and are commonly available.

As for water, that's pretty simple.. Store some activated carbon, a few pounds of Calcium Hypochlorite (pool shock), and a few Sawyer or Berkey filters and collect rain water.

[CountryGuy]

On gas storage I think I might have commented elsewhere on this method that I think is pretty foolproof for most of us. I heard this from Jack Spirko at Survivalpodcast. It's simple, 12 cans numbered 1-12 corresponding to the month. So depending on if you have 5gal or 6 gal cans it gives you between 60 and 72 gal of gas. and the oldest is never more than a year. Each month the can comes up in rotation use it up. Fill your car, use it to mow the yard whatever and then refill. *poof* that simple. you say you need to store more, well get bigger containers or more for each month. I do put a little Stabil and a little marvel mystery oil in the can before I fill it so it mixes in well. I've been thinking about starting to fill up with non ethanol fuel but around here the places that have it only have it in the hightest so it's about $0.50-0.60 more per gallon so I haven't done it yet. So far the "old" gas I had hasn't been an issue. Main reason I'm looking to go with ethanol free is for when I use it in my power equipment to have less issues with what the ethanol does to them.

BTW, this also works for diesel or kerosene. I don't have need for diesel though I usually have a 5 gal oil bucket of it around for lighting brush piles and I only have (3) 5 gal cans of kero(#2) I keep for my kerosene heater. I have to admit some of what I used this last winter was going on 2 1/2-3 years old and I didn't have issues nor did I have any kind or additive in it. I'm wondering ir Pri-G would work with the kerosene since they're basically the same with one just being less processed.

[Zombie Axe]

http://www.priproducts.com/prigproduct.htm

I have used Stabil for years in my Gas, but those in the know seem to prefer PRI-G (gas) and PRI-D (diesel). I still hafta locate a local source for it, but have been lazy, and besides my Stabil is good for 3 more months:D

Some Obvious bigges. Don't store fuel in your home, garage or anything attached to it. Fire and Gas makes things go bad quickly... Store fuel in a well aired building away from your home or better in a underground fuel tank.

Rotate new in, and rotate old out. Date all cans with treatment and vital info. Store winter gas as it has more stuff in it that makes for better ignition in colder months. Also makes for better storage fuel.

Probably lots more but just a few i can think of for now...

[kenno]

I have a gravity fed, filtered water system but It has often frozen during winter so I also have 6-50 gallon drums and 8-5 gallon containers and a bunch of 1-3 gallon jugs just in case.