Who to avoid when SHTF!

[hminus]

I did not think you were .... you seem to be one who is passionate regarding his perceived calling in life and feels himself honorable .... and easily slighted by those who would question this. I understand and appreciate your feelings. Keep in mind you are not obligated to defend your fellow leos nor is it necessary for those who are truly honorable and abide by law and morality .... it is not the profession that is in question here. What is being expressed here is when the trap is sprung, those in blue, having no domestic priorities, will be in uniform following orders that are not in the best interest of the citizens they swore an oath to "protect and defend". But again lets all pray this isn't the case.

O.W

Sir, you are correct I am very passionate in my calling and it is not perceived it is what I have always done. I don’t always feel honorable. I simply try to do what is right. I make mistakes and I hate it when I do . My life even as a child was to protect.... My siblings from my abusive father and the poverty that was our life. Then This great Country and now my Community. I am however not easily slighted. It takes a statement like Survivormans original post to get me slighted. The post was directed at All Law Enforcement, not some or even the less than 1/2 % statistical confirmed cops as per the website you provided, It was directed at all. ”

I can also confirm that the statement that those in blue, having no domestic priorities is untrue. These guys have to live in the communities in which they work. They are now placing officers living quarters in public housing so they can be closer to the problems and respond while off duty. It is called community policing. Do you honestly think that the largest percentage of these guys are going to go rape and pillage their own communities? I believe a small percentage of them will turn rogue, just as a certain percentage of garbage men, lawyers, auto mechanics, security guards, you name it, will do some unthinkable acts. The same generalization can be said here... Let’s say that out of 100 members, ahhhh perhaps 30 are racists and might start a local race war... I don't believe it would ever happen, but someone who is not in our shoes might think so. If I started talking about posting to a survival board to some of my liberal friends.. (yes i have 2 of em), they might point out that these boards are all violent race hating extremists. They believe it because they do not know walk in your boots.

I have great faith that the words "Protect and Defend" WILL be remembered if we ever suffer great difficulties. My boots are well worn, but feel free to walk in them for a while.

[monet861]

I would recomend avoiding EVERYONE who is not family, and 50% of those that are!
I know 'Survivalists" that pack and AK and wear a shmegagh like a terrorist, others that do the same and pack a sword! Why would I want to be caught within 5 miles of such knuckleheads? Heck If I saw those types out at night, I'd think Jihadies were on the loose!
Hide in the shadows for the first 60 days, let the somebody else drain the gene pool.

Well said, I agree 1000%.

[kenno]

I would recomend avoiding EVERYONE who is not family, and 50% of those that are!
I know 'Survivalists" that pack and AK and wear a shmegagh like a terrorist, others that do the same and pack a sword! Why would I want to be caught within 5 miles of such knuckleheads? Heck If I saw those types out at night, I'd think Jihadies were on the loose!
Hide in the shadows for the first 60 days, let the somebody else drain the gene pool.

[Oscar Wilde]

..... Look. I am not trolling for a fight here.

I did not think you were .... you seem to be one who is passionate regarding his perceived calling in life and feels himself honorable .... and easily slighted by those who would question this. I understand and appreciate your feelings. Keep in mind you are not obligated to defend your fellow leos nor is it necessary for those who are truly honorable and abide by law and morality .... it is not the profession that is in question here. What is being expressed here is when the trap is sprung, those in blue, having no domestic priorities, will be in uniform following orders that are not in the best interest of the citizens they swore an oath to "protect and defend". But again lets all pray this isn't the case.

O.W

[Survivorman]

Me pointing out that the cops who murdered people in Katrina and torture people to death are nutcases is not incorrect. Your implication that I included all authority figures as being so is. So let's keep the thread on topic with some Katrina facts:

On September 2, 2005, four days after Katrina made landfall, Henry Glover was shot by one officer, then apparently taken hostage by other officers who either killed him directly or burned him alive.

Also on September 2, Danny Brumfield Sr., a 45 year old man stranded with his family at the New Orleans Convention Center, was deliberately hit by a patrol car, then shot in the back by police in front of scores of witnesses as he tried to wave down the officers and ask for help

On September 4, 2005, a group of police officers drove up to several unarmed civilians at the Danziger Bridge who were fleeing their flooded homes and opened fire. Two people were killed, including a mentally disabled man named Ronald Madison. Madison was shot in the back by officer Robert Faulcon and officer Kenneth Bowen then rushed up and kicked and stomped on him, apparently until he was dead.

Police officers then arrested Madison's brother Lance under false pretenses and later had secret meetings where they conspired to invent a cover story, including planting evidence, inventing witnesses and coordinating lies.

All that has been said by myself and others is there is no way to know whether the ones you may run into are these people. Therefore it is better to avoid all of them. And these types of incidents cement that argument.

[hminus]

It might have something to do with this mind set : "The folks I work for .... They are trying to think of ways to include them if possible" .... who is it you work for .... strike that .... who pays your salary? Tax payer / citizens? If so, its very thoughtful that the peasants are considered in the plans. For sake of continued argument lets all pray your "brothers" are as upstanding and honorable as you suggest the majority are.



Some of your "bros" stepped into the category all of their own accord as they have NO fear of laws or imprisonment ....

O.W.

Pardon me.. I should have said "work with" that was a typo on my part. I know who the heck I work for, that is why I understand the fact that a pay raise for me is out of the question and has been for over 5 years. Regarding the second statment, isnt that what we all do? Look for like minded folks that might be able to help each other in difficult times? The point i was making is that the the few guys I talk to about what to do if things get bad around my part are not all military or cops. Some of the most important folks you can have with you are those with good old fashioned skills.

Look. I am not trolling for a fight here. I simply wanted the original poster who said this:

"I have been following the story where the Dallas police tazered some guy over and over until he died. Just another incident in a string of incidents where these nutcase high school bullies go off the hook. My opinion is if the SHTF avoid any authority figure be it police or military. They will take your shit and kill you faster than any criminal. "

To know that his take on cops is wrong and yes, it does put LEO in the same bag of marbles as the bangers and nazi duchebags. ----- They will take your shit and kill you faster than any criminal. -----

Katrina was pretty darn disgraceful and lots of the people "I work with", say the same thing. Oh and by the way, the dude that busted up all the corruption in coverup during Katrina... yes he was a cop.

[kentuckyshiner85]

I just look at thing like what happened during Katrina. people where killed by police , their way for their own protection was taken by the police and no one stood up to stop them. That included fellow leos . That is why I say I will not stop for no one in a shtf sit. I wouldn't let anyone on my property , let alone in my house. I don't worry about roving gangs as much as I do the friendly neighborhood cop.

[tbkbtk123]

Well. the good like minded LEO's will have quit and bugged out with the rest of us or their family... its the ones that stick with the Job after SHTF to be worried about....

Now this I agree with! I try not to lump any person or group or occupation into any catagory. But as Paintball said, after SHTF all of the good personnal will probably have bugged out to look after themselves and their family leaving an undesireable group behind to avoid!

[Survivorman]

Surenos or the Skinheads

Dude I never mentioned any of those guys. I don't even know what a Surenos is. Lighten up lol.

[Oscar Wilde]

My dispute is with the intention of the original poster to catagorise LEO in this manner....

It might have something to do with this mind set : "The folks I work for .... They are trying to think of ways to include them if possible" .... who is it you work for .... strike that .... who pays your salary? Tax payer / citizens? If so, its very thoughtful that the peasants are considered in the plans. For sake of continued argument lets all pray your "brothers" are as upstanding and honorable as you suggest the majority are.

There is my beef. How dare he place my brothers in the same category as the Surenos or the Skinheads and the rest of the true animals out there. They are doing what they want right now. No fear of laws or imprisonment.

Some of your "bros" stepped into the category all of their own accord as they have NO fear of laws or imprisonment ....

O.W.

[hminus]

I do not dispute your tactical desision making process. Non of you. I hold true to the same idea to avoid as much public contact as possible. My dispute is with the intention of the original poster to catagorise LEO in this manner:

" Who to avoid when SHTF!
I have been following the story where the Dallas police tazered some guy over and over until he died. Just another incident in a string of incidents where these nutcase high school bullies go off the hook. My opinion is if the SHTF avoid any authority figure be it police or military. They will take your shit and kill you faster than any criminal. "
There is my beef. How dare he place my brothers in the same category as the Surenos or the Skinheads and the rest of the true animals out there. They are doing what they want right now. No fear of laws or imprisonment. Wait to see how these duchebags roll once the LEO presence declines.

The folks I work for have many of the same political views most of you do. Some are even making plans just in case an emergency should present itself.. You know what, they are not discussing how to rape and steal from the local populace. They are trying to think of ways to include them if possible. Think about it... how many doctors do you have under your belt for this type of scenario.. How about a good pharmacisit or someone who know how to work on cars... Besides... most cops have better "Shit" than some of the guys making these posts. They don't want to steal you gun.

[monet861]

I look at it this way, if I avoid LE or military it is because of the fact that if I have something(food, water, weapons, etc.) that they need for their families survival, they may try to take it. Same as anyone else. I'm a Marine and have a number of family member in LE, but in a SHTF senario everyone has the possibility of hurting me or my family in one way or another. I personally pretty much trust LE to do their jobs, even here in Shitcago where coruption runs rampant. When I have gotten a ticket (a little too often) I deserved it. I might not have been happy about it, but was speeding like they said.

So I say avoid pretty much everybody.

[Survivorman]

+1000 nakadnu

[nakadnu]

LEO are human beings no better, no worse than the rest of us. In our local Sherrif's department there are 3 out 12 that I would consider trustworthy people in a normal situation. I could pick any 12 people at random from any proffesion and come up with the same result. The truth is you will not be able to trust 999 out of a 1,000 people in a desperate situation regardless of their proffesion.
As I said before I would not trust anyone stronger than me.
I think a good indication of trustability would be to look at their companions.
A loner is alone for a reason. I am sure we are all familiar with the the cowboy who rides off into the sunset alone at the end.
Well he is alone for a good reason. He is probably an Ahole and no one wants to ride with him.
A group of adults only are most likely a lawless gang run by the strongest and most violent of the group.
A group of mixed individuals, men, women, children are probably going to be the most trustworthy.
I think we can judge others by how they treat those weaker than themselves.

[hminus]

That would make at least two of us .... trouble is we didn't identify the threat and by all accounts we've failed .....

I'm not sure how to take this quote. I believe in my heart Afghanistan was a pretty good place to be right after 911. A soldier doesn't have to agree with their politics during war, we just do the job. I do not look at Afghanistan as a failure. And per my very good friend who is alone with his troops in Iraq, His 10-19 is the locals...he thinks it was worth it?

[/QUOTE]The few? .... might take a gander at this at your leisure http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/

The good folks who have donned the blue have stepped into a corrupt institution working for a corrupt system .... assimilate or be culled apparently cause the good guys aren't holding the bad ones to any legal or moral standard.[/QUOTE]

This still sounds like LEO bashing thrown in with some web based statistics... Question 1.) Is your resource on "bad cops rampant in the US" credible? Or is it like some of the ADL site information we see from time to time. 2.) the comment about the Borg like assimilation of a corrupt system makes me laugh. If anything the criminal justice system has slid back to the left as it does during many political fluctuations. Talk to your local DA or heck.. find one of these "thugs in blue" you speak of and ask...

A quick look at your statistics gleaned from the website you mentioned:

Summary
The following statistical report is based on information gathered during the first three months of 2010. The data used to produce this statistical report is available for public review in the database section of this site. From January 2010 through March 2010 there were:

1,160 Unique reports of police misconduct cited.
1,410 Law enforcement officers cited in recorded police misconduct reports.
77 Police Chiefs, Sheriffs, and other department leaders cited in misconduct reports.
1,446 Alleged victims of police misconduct cited in reports.
52 Fatalities attributed to alleged acts of police misconduct.
16.5 Law enforcement officers cited in the news for misconduct on average each day.
$54,320,000 paid out in settlements and judgments for police misconduct related civil lawsuits.


None of these statistics discuss the results of any investigations of the accusations... I have had 32 complaints against me in 15 years. Two of them were credible... One was that I was driving too fast in my car..(true--- no excuse for that-- I was not going to a call) 2.) -- I broke a guys coffe table during a drug search.. (it was an accident I admit doing it)

OK lets compare your stats to total numbers of cops in the US. Demographic studies show the total numbers of police and detectives :
Police and detectives held about 883,600 jobs in 2008


Now do the math... It appearers as if your suspect website even with all the doom and gloom shows only a .47 percent thug cop to good cop ratio. That is including the 2008 demographic study of total number of police compared to your sites 2010 bad cop statistics....That also does not include the results of any investigations conducted in the sections that have the (your words) alleged..

My issue is not with what you guys decide to do or not do in a time of great chaos... I might do the same thing and avoid all people except for my chosen few friends when a BO situation hits. I was taking slight offense to a generalization made by the original poster that all cops are bullies from school who now have the power and authority to Kick your ass and steal your candy...NOT SO :)

Take a closer look at your resources and compare stats.....

Again... Dont judge the many by the actions of the few - or this case less than one half of one percent......and that was rounded up by the way