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  • #16
    Where was welfare mentioned? Just unemployment. Almost 2 million people lost jobs last year. 100's of thousnads more will be in the weeks to come. These are good decent folk who expect to get back what they paid over the years, in a time of need. When it dries up, they will be pissed! Mark my word, IT will happen soon.
    "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches" Franklin

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    • #17
      Fortunately, and unfortunately, I'm an armed courier in an armored truck. I have the false sense of security of driving around in an armored vehicle, and the training to know what to do when the situation presents itself.

      There was talk at work regarding the economy and our jobs. We are mostly secure in our positions because stores and banks will continue to need us to transport their deposits. However, it is possible we may become a target of ambition if riots ensue over unemployment benefits running dry. At that point, it has been brought up in generalized conversation that our services could be called upon by law enforcement agencies as crowd control, instead of couriers. The military will back the police, and the police will back the armed guards.

      I just have one question burning in my mind: Do I stand together with those who enforce the laws, or do I bug out?
      "Reject the basic assumptions of civilization, especially the importance of material possessions." "The things you own end up owning you"-Tyler Durden

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      • #18
        Depends.....

        Freedom revolution to regain our country's political/fiscal composure and moral/economic footing: Bug.....

        Idiot rioters who are pissed 'cause they'll have to sell their $5000 rims to eat: Supress.
        "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

        "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

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        • #19
          Originally posted by voodoo View Post
          Where was welfare mentioned? Just unemployment. Almost 2 million people lost jobs last year. 100's of thousnads more will be in the weeks to come. These are good decent folk who expect to get back what they paid over the years, in a time of need. When it dries up, they will be pissed! Mark my word, IT will happen soon.
          Here is my theory on "unemployed". The unemployment rate in the US is around 6%. That means that 94% of the population is gainfully employed.

          Now, if we take my theory that 10% of the population is just too lazy to work, or not industrious enough to make money, that means that we still have 4% of the lazy working.

          Here in Odessa the unemployment rate is 2.8%. There is a labor shortage. There are many places like that around the country. And these are not low paying jobs, and they really do not require any secondary education. Rather then sucking off the public doll (yes, unemployment is welfare) find where the work is and friggin move!!

          There I got on my pedastal.

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          • #20
            Example; A single women, living in Phoenix, has a child, mortgage, car payment. Been with the same company for 5 years making 40K+ a year. Company makes cutbacks, she loses her job. Has been trying to find a job for anywhere near what she was making, for 3 months. Only jobs availabe are at $10 bucks an hour, just slightly more than what unemployment pays. (Nether of which cover her monthly expenses.) So, she should give up her life and move with the hopes of finding work elsewhere? That is idiotically absurd. How is she supposed to sell her house in this market? Pay for the move? Travel to a new place to research it? Yes, there are a few places work is available, but when somebody who makes more than 40k loses thier job, it is NOT easy for them to find a new one, ANYWHERE in this country. Here on the coast, the high school kids are complaining that they can't find work. I think you are in a bit of fantasy world out there in the oil fields. Life these days are not that simple.
            "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches" Franklin

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            • #21
              Originally posted by voodoo View Post
              Example; A single women, living in Phoenix, has a child, mortgage, car payment. Been with the same company for 5 years making 40K+ a year. Company makes cutbacks, she loses her job. Has been trying to find a job for anywhere near what she was making, for 3 months. Only jobs availabe are at $10 bucks an hour, just slightly more than what unemployment pays. (Nether of which cover her monthly expenses.) So, she should give up her life and move with the hopes of finding work elsewhere? That is idiotically absurd. How is she supposed to sell her house in this market? Pay for the move? Travel to a new place to research it? Yes, there are a few places work is available, but when somebody who makes more than 40k loses thier job, it is NOT easy for them to find a new one, ANYWHERE in this country. Here on the coast, the high school kids are complaining that they can't find work. I think you are in a bit of fantasy world out there in the oil fields. Life these days are not that simple.

              So,

              A single mom, responsible for the raising of a child, puts herself in debt, lives above her means, loses a job, won't take one that pays her less, refuses to move elsewhere. Hmm. Yeah, let the pitty party start.

              You look at it like everyone has the right to live where they want, and make enough money to live an unreasonable lifestyle on credit, then have the government pay to support them.

              I had a decent job, lost it to a corporate buyout, and packed my crap and move 500 miles to where the work was. So, no, I do not have pitty. No, it is not a fantasy land, and I am suggesting people do exactly what I did to survive.

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              • #22
                Damn I love a good debate! I think you are missing the point; There are very few jobs to be had, even if one was able to move. I have friends/family in Miami, Portland, Dallas, and Kansas City, to name a few palces, who have lost employment. All have similar problem, no jobs available. They have working spouses, kids in school, medical needs. Can't just up and relocate.

                Credit is bad, but it is the USA today. Very few live debt free. Do you? Very few have more than a couple grand in the bank. Many take advantage of and abuse credit, many need it to just survive a meger life. With the rising price of food, and when gas was thru the roof, many who only used cash, had to resort to credit to get by. They had no choice. Money goes out a lot faster than it comes in for most, and not always by thier doing. Thats thier fault?

                I understand what you are saying, and agree with most, but there are many who live simple lives who struggle to get by. They are at the mercy of thier employers. For the record, I do live debt free, except for a vehicle payment of my choice. (i'd never by a car outright)
                "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches" Franklin

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by voodoo View Post
                  Damn I love a good debate! I think you are missing the point; There are very few jobs to be had, even if one was able to move. I have friends/family in Miami, Portland, Dallas, and Kansas City, to name a few palces, who have lost employment. All have similar problem, no jobs available. They have working spouses, kids in school, medical needs. Can't just up and relocate.

                  Credit is bad, but it is the USA today. Very few live debt free. Do you? Very few have more than a couple grand in the bank. Many take advantage of and abuse credit, many need it to just survive a meger life. With the rising price of food, and when gas was thru the roof, many who only used cash, had to resort to credit to get by. They had no choice. Money goes out a lot faster than it comes in for most, and not always by thier doing. Thats thier fault?

                  I understand what you are saying, and agree with most, but there are many who live simple lives who struggle to get by. They are at the mercy of thier employers. For the record, I do live debt free, except for a vehicle payment of my choice. (i'd never by a car outright)

                  Debt free except for the house I own north of Fort Worth. I always pay cash for vehicles.

                  What I am saying is that there is work if you are willing to do it. It is not glamorous, but it is there.

                  Pizza delivery is out there. Pays pretty well too. Fast food, night time stockers. There is lots of work. It may not be that 90k a year job twisting bolts on an assembly line, but the work is there if you are really wanting to survive.

                  I am not sure where you live, but I would be willing to bet you that I could pull the classifieds in a 50 mile radius and find something.

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                  • #24
                    Here where I live, outside of Corpus, it is mainly a resort area. The community suffered greatly this past year. Many businesses have closed, others will be soon. Very few places are hiring, including fastfood. Only thing keeping the town going are the snowbirds. What will happen come April when they all fly North? All along the Gulf things are the same. Now, it is whoever lives here fault, for chosing to reside here. Once again, most are in debt and cant leave. I wish they would all go away!

                    I am self-employed, and do what I must to get by. I have many skills, and when something does not pan out, I go to the next. Been living this way for 10 years now and cant imagine living any other way. It is not hard to make money, just need to have the drive. Most folks cant comprehend that.
                    "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches" Franklin

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by voodoo View Post
                      Here where I live, outside of Corpus, it is mainly a resort area. The community suffered greatly this past year. Many businesses have closed, others will be soon. Very few places are hiring, including fastfood. Only thing keeping the town going are the snowbirds. What will happen come April when they all fly North? All along the Gulf things are the same. Now, it is whoever lives here fault, for chosing to reside here. Once again, most are in debt and cant leave. I wish they would all go away!

                      I am self-employed, and do what I must to get by. I have many skills, and when something does not pan out, I go to the next. Been living this way for 10 years now and cant imagine living any other way. It is not hard to make money, just need to have the drive. Most folks cant comprehend that.

                      Agreed, but debt is self imposed. Nobody is ever forced to go into debt.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Rustyshakelford View Post
                        Agreed, but debt is self imposed. Nobody is ever forced to go into debt.
                        I agree with this statement, Rusty. I agree that nobody is forced to take out a 30 year loan of $250,000 to buy a home, or apply for a $32,000 automobile loan. Most people have credit cards they use regularly and most of them have an unstable interest rate.

                        My current struggle is to pay off my Dell computer. At almost 30% interest, it's becoming more and more irritating to me knowing I'll have to pay almost $1000 for a $700 computer.

                        However, I do understand why people force themselves into debt with credit...because they want it NOW. Greed, Pride, and Envy are the three worst evils a person can put themselves into. Greed of that Lexus or Mercedes they've been eyeing, Pride to pull out of the garage in their expensive new car, and envy of the neighbor when he or she drives up in a newer or more exotic car.

                        I currently rent my apartment, and am in very good terms with my landlord, however, if I lose my job, he still has to make money. His only income is a small retirement, and whatever he gets from his rentals. Even living in this apartment has put me in debt. If I can't afford to pay my rent, I have to leave. I know this, and I live with that thought on a daily basis.

                        What I don't understand, though, is the fact that people know what credit is, and what consequences they can face if the worst were to happen, and they ignore it as if it will never happen to them.
                        "Reject the basic assumptions of civilization, especially the importance of material possessions." "The things you own end up owning you"-Tyler Durden

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Visinedrops View Post
                          I agree with this statement, Rusty. I agree that nobody is forced to take out a 30 year loan of $250,000 to buy a home, or apply for a $32,000 automobile loan. Most people have credit cards they use regularly and most of them have an unstable interest rate.

                          My current struggle is to pay off my Dell computer. At almost 30% interest, it's becoming more and more irritating to me knowing I'll have to pay almost $1000 for a $700 computer.

                          However, I do understand why people force themselves into debt with credit...because they want it NOW. Greed, Pride, and Envy are the three worst evils a person can put themselves into. Greed of that Lexus or Mercedes they've been eyeing, Pride to pull out of the garage in their expensive new car, and envy of the neighbor when he or she drives up in a newer or more exotic car.

                          I currently rent my apartment, and am in very good terms with my landlord, however, if I lose my job, he still has to make money. His only income is a small retirement, and whatever he gets from his rentals. Even living in this apartment has put me in debt. If I can't afford to pay my rent, I have to leave. I know this, and I live with that thought on a daily basis.

                          What I don't understand, though, is the fact that people know what credit is, and what consequences they can face if the worst were to happen, and they ignore it as if it will never happen to them.
                          Well said. However, did you learn a lesson about dealing with Dell? Bet you never do that one again. The difference is, the welfare mentality will dictate that these people do the same crap over and over.

                          Renting is ok. I am actually both a home owner and a renter. I own a home in North Richland Hills (as you know) and rent my home here in Odessa. There is a reason for that. I can afford to pay both if needed. And, when the real estate market comes back and it will in the next 18 months, I will sell the house in NRH. I also do not want to buy here because I know that my job is dependant on oil prices. I may end up having to pack up our crap and move elsewhere.

                          That, my friend, is reality. Reality is not making 40k a year, trying to afford 1k a month on a mortgage, 500 a month on a stupid car, 400 a month on credit cards and then blowing moola on the weekends partying like a sailor. (I am not saying you are doing this at all)

                          Credit card companies are evil. We do not educate people on dealing with the devil, and then wonder why people are in the fix they are in.

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                          • #28
                            Similar to government bailouts, people expect an "easy way out" of any financial circumstance they find themselves in. I have learned my lesson about credit in general...those who have enough money to afford to pay for the things they want don't need credit, and those who could benefit off credit have to pay more for the things they want because of it.

                            A person doesn't learn a lesson until they've hit rock bottom and have to pull themselves out of the hole they've dug...and even then some seem to think they can make the same mistake because they've "learned how to deal with it".
                            "Reject the basic assumptions of civilization, especially the importance of material possessions." "The things you own end up owning you"-Tyler Durden

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Visinedrops View Post
                              Similar to government bailouts, people expect an "easy way out" of any financial circumstance they find themselves in. I have learned my lesson about credit in general...those who have enough money to afford to pay for the things they want don't need credit, and those who could benefit off credit have to pay more for the things they want because of it.

                              A person doesn't learn a lesson until they've hit rock bottom and have to pull themselves out of the hole they've dug...and even then some seem to think they can make the same mistake because they've "learned how to deal with it".

                              Yep, credit is like heroin. It is better to not start, then quit and suffer the consequences.

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                              • #30
                                This thread has gone off topic but since I have a rant that is connected with the economy I'll just jump in!
                                I thought I was watching the local CBS news affilate on TV tonight and this piece comes on about how things are 'Looking Up for GMC!' So there is this interview (on a car lot) with your typical female, wet behind the ears, news caster talking to a 'guy' about how, now that he has faith in GMC, he's going to trade in his BMW on a new camero! I figured the guy was insane or full of BS. The 'guy' had the smarmy look of a car lot Sales Manager. Then the news caster related some jive about the Bailout, which is why the 'guy' now had found God in GMC! Then right at the end of the piece a voice-over announced that GMC had dropped it's minium credit rating for a car loan from 700 points to 621 points.
                                I blew my top and started cussing CBS for planting this phoney "story" as if it was a Local piece in thier national broadcast! My wife was clueless, she did not get it.
                                GMC is now doing EXACTELY what the Home Loan industry did to drive-up sales by selling to unqualified buyers. This is EXACTELY why our economy is in the tank and why TAXPAYERS are bailing-out the banks and car manufactures now! GMC is just trying to repeat the process and of course maintain it's bonus packages by reaching sales quotas at tax payer expense!
                                Why would CBS do such a thing? GMC pays CBS millions every year in advertising fees! It seemed fitting that the network that lied to the public by planting explosives in auto gas tanks for a 60 Minutes show would lie to the public again to save a cash cow. This "News Story" was followed by, you guessed it, '60 Minutes'.
                                Last edited by kenno; 01-04-2009, 05:56 PM.
                                The road to serfdom is paved with free electric golf carts.

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