EMP, Solar Emmisions, TEOTWAWKI: QUESTIONS

[Recently_Awoken]

Hey all,

From what I can tell, what I've heard, what I think, 2012 trouble will be related to massive solar activity. If affects are severe yet gradual, the economic domino will fall, followed shortly after by food domino. After that, the order doesn't really matter. The S-will-have-already-HTF. I don't have a telescope or a smoking crystal bowl I'm peering into. I've just watched some shows, done some reading, and came to my own conclusions.

With all that in mind, I seek guidance to help me better prepare (efficient preps in the right order). Questions/topics will follow. Thanks for any information you can lend.

Solar Event Questions:
- Do electronic devices have to be turned on to be affected? Do I have to protect everything with a Faraday Cage?
- Vehicles... will my parked cars be affected or only cars that are running at the time of the event? If running, what to do?
- Earth insulation... If I have my stuff buried, will that help at all? How deep?

Larger Solar topic:
I've read some and seen a show about an expected 2012 solar event. With this, I've seen government preps that include mass excavations (shelter building underground). For those science types who know... In a BAD solar event, are we talking atmospheric fire, where underground filtered living is the only way to survive? If this sounds stupid, forgive me. I'm just adding things up the best I can. How many of you are prepping for an underground stay?

[Long_Hunter]

Check out the thread in General Chat titled "Everything you want to know about EMP" follow the links and learn. All this has been discussed in great detail in this thread.

When discussing 2012, putting aside all the hoopla around the Mayan Calendar and the new solar cycle, and take a look at all the human driven events that will occur that year, such as the next US Presidential election, Mexican Presidential elections, and other significant political turnovers. Additionally, the super computers Sequoia and Pleiades will come on-line (can you say artificial intelligence). A lot going on that year that will be significant emotional events for a great many people world wide. Oh, it is also a leap year.

RLTW!!
LH

[Recently_Awoken]

Long_Hunter...

Yes, I've glanced at that thread before I posted this.

A response in the thread you mentioned from a fellow statesman...
"Wow... Talk about information overload. It's gonna take a little time to sift through this. I may need another binder just for EMP."

I listed three specific questions that could be "yes" or "no" answers and a general topic on underground sheltering. So, thanks for referring me to the thread, but it could take me 'who knows how long' to glean three answers from hundreds of report pages, pages of links, and 11 pages of responses. Not down playing the research already done. I'm sure all of it is extensive and super great, but would it be a crime to have another thread that focused on just the specific information I'm seeking? There's just so much to do without becoming an expert in every survival topic of relevance. I'm not afraid to read, but I just need a couple of quick answers.

[Long_Hunter]

Fair enough.





Solar Event Questions:
- Do electronic devices have to be turned on to be affected? NO, on or off makes no difference.
Do I have to protect everything with a Faraday Cage? Not necessarily, but much of the government & DoD testing is really inconclusive. Autos parked in underground garages are generally considered to be safe. In the typical american home, everything probably needs protected. The electronics I want preserved without question I have stored in ammo cans, inside an old grounded chest freezer.
- Vehicles... will my parked cars be affected or only cars that are running at the time of the event? If running, what to do? All cars have the potential to be affected, running or not. Again, test results say some will keep running and some will not, really inconclusive- again testing suggests that vehicles in underground shelters will be okay.
- Earth insulation... If I have my stuff buried, will that help at all? How deep? Yes it will help... how deep I honestly do not know; placed in ammo cans or other similar containers (old microwaves work well) and grounded should be fine at shallow depth as they are fine above ground (in theory and during tests with EMP generators).

All the testing that has been done with EMP generators is still a "best guess"; the Soviets conducted the most extensive testing as they had a very active program to develop thermonuclear weapons that were specifically designed to generate an enhanced HEMP. No one has detonated a thermonuclear device at altitude in modern times to gauge the true effects HEMP. Hope this helps some. NOTE: The Chinese are aggressively pursuing enhanced HEMP weapons.

As for the the part about solar events... for my part, a solar flare powerful enough to scorch clean the surface of the Earth is an event I would not want to survive; We are not prepping for an underground stay.
Lets go folks, chime in and give Recently Awoken some answers, that is after all what this board is all about.

RLTW!!
LH

[Recently_Awoken]

Long_Hunter,

THANK YOU!!! The information you provided is the baseline I was looking for. I definitely get the gist of it now. Critical items, shield them to be safe. Burrying can help. Cars... probably trickiest item to protect due to size. THANK YOU!!! Once I get more of my basics covered, I'll definitely come back and read in depth on these topics. For now, I basic answers so I can keep moving.

Now, I hope this helps pay some back generate some ideas.
Was thinking about grounding a vehicle, just like any other item. Since nobody really knows for sure, maybe ground a car with a cable? Burry a conducting cable deep into the ground, leaving one end (with slack and a battery jumper clamp exposed). When parking your car, clamp it off to the ground (by grounding to the frame or something). Also, what little I have read said flares/emp is directional. Maybe weave some sort of makeshift mesh of copper into the bottom surface of the hood w/an attachment point to the frame to protect it. Now, protecting movnig cars... that's beyond me. Wonder how the military deals with that. Possibly cheesy ideas, but my mind won't sit still.

Thanks again, and any further info will be graciously accepted.

[Big_Saw]

I think LH actually killed this one and drug it back to the cave.....xD.....awesome intel, Bro....

[slowz1k]

As far as auto's go, I've thought it through with the info available and decided to acquire and protect only the electronics that may be affected by an EMP. I have a 95 Ford explorer, so for the most part these items are cheap and plentiful. If an EMP fries my truck, I hope to have it running again after replacing these parts. I got this idea from the online novel "Lights Out" by halffast. The characters were able to get most non EFI vehicles to run again by changing the points and condenser, or on newer vehicles, swapping the EFI for a carb setup (expensive). If I keep my extra electronic parts (Power train control module, ignition coil, assorted sensors, etc) in a faraday, I should be good after a few hours wrenching.

Just another way to prepare.

[cbprice797]

As for a "burning sky" event.... that is unlikely to happen from a solar flare. During nearly every major flare event over the last 30 or 40 years there have been electronics destroyed somehwhere on the globe. If the flare event does happen in the near future ther will not be much in the way of ANY electronics left since practically none of it is hardened or stored properly, unless you count the literally tons of electronics that are stored in the old salt mines throughout the midwest along with everyhting else that would be needed to "rebuild" after a catastrophy.

RA unless you spend lots of money you will not be able to harden a vehcle from EMP bursts or a strong solar flare event. Would be much cheaper to do as slow is doing and that would be to buold your own Faraday cage and place the car electronics, along with anyhting else electronic that you would like to have for later use, inside the cage for protection.

[Recently_Awoken]

I hope I didn't overstate my last question about a 'burning sky' contingency. And I agree... I wouldn't want to be around after such a FUBAR event. I've just read a bunch (I know, don't believe everything I read) about the ongoing bunker excavations around the country for government or 'selected' use. If they're going underground, maybe we should make similar plans, or at least consider it. Just trying to arm with info. That's all.

Thanks for the response.
RA

[mountainman28713]

Everyone interested in this, you all should read the book by Dr. William Fortschen, it is called "One Second After". I have read it and am going to read it again and take notes this time. This book is based on DoD models, personal contacts and medical realities that accompany a long term (1 year +) disruptive event. He covers events that can trigger the event and how it is mitigated in a NC mountain community. Gangs are a major problem during this era, and pose a substantial security threat to a surviving community, that is just that-surviving. This can be anyone on this forum and all on this forum at the same time. Get it-read it...live.

[hminus]

The EMP is categorized 3 types. An E1 pulse is a very fast pulse that generates very high voltages. This one can destroy computers and communications equipment and is too fast for ordinary lightning protectors. I believe this type of pulse is the (Fast pulse) generated by a Nuclear detonation and is limited to "cone line of sight" or "cone of sight". Some of our SCADA architectures will protect data lines on the edges of a nuclear (Hight altitude) EMP (but don't quote me on this). The E2 component of the pulse is the easiest to protect against, and is kind of like the pulse produced by lightning. The E3 component of the pulse is a very slow pulse, and may last several minutes. This one can be caused by the nuclear detonation pushing earth's magnetic field out of the way or a Solar Event. The E3 is much like a geomagnetic storm caused by a very severe solar flare.
Google the 1859 Carrington Event for more about an E3. NASA has a pretty good article about this event. Some scientists believe we are due for another one of these SUPER SOLAR events, within the next two years. Now the Carrington Event had little effect on the infrastructure of Europe and North America simply because we were in the early stages of technological development of the 19th century and the only real effects were telegraph lines being influenced. Because (most) modern electronics are not insulated against this type of event, the effects are speculated to be catastrophic. This has a subject of record back in 2005. The following is a quote from a House debate on EMP effects in the US.

[Congressional Record: June 9, 2005 (House)]

This likely consequence of a high-altitude nuclear burst was
corroborated by Dr. Lowell Wood, who in a field hearing at the Johns
Hopkins University applied physics laboratory, made the observation
that a burst like this above our atmosphere creating this
electromagnetic pulse would be like a giant continental time machine
turning us back to the technology of 100 years ago. It is very obvious
that the population of today in its distribution could not be supported
by the technology of 100 years ago. And I asked Dr. Wood, I said, ``Dr.
Wood, clearly the technology of 100 years ago could not support our
present population in its distribution,'' and his unemotional response
was, ``Yes, I know. The population will shrink until it can be
supported by the technology.''
Just a word, Mr. Speaker, about what this EMP is. It is very much
like a really giant solar storm. All of us are familiar with solar
storms and with the disruption to our communication systems. And this
is like a really giant solar storm. It is kind of like really intense
static electricity everywhere all at once, all over the whole country.
It is sort of like a lightning strike that is not just isolated to one
spot. Different than a lightning strike in terms of the intensities and
so forth and the spectrum, but it would be everywhere all at once over
a very large area.

[Page H4340-H4345]

The average Joe wanting to protect sensitive electronics has only one choice. Build a Faraday cage or Field expedient Faraday cage. The data I have suggests that putting your stuff under ground will not provide protection. The pulse will go into the earth deeper than you can dig. The only thing one can do is direct this energy around your device or devices. (Faraday)...
Building one is not too difficult, grounding is also important. There are several valid sources out there for building your own Faraday. I have a working Faraday, but am looking into the possibility of using a microwave as a "reverse" faraday...

Regarding vehicles. As far as I am concerned, any newer vehicle is subject to the effects of an EMP Event. This is proven by way of the new Law enforcement technology for disabling vehicles using small scale EMP generators. Unless you own a 1968 Mustang plan on some form of Bipedalism...

Oh... I forgot.. Regarding Solar EMP Events: Data suggests they do not have an effect on humans. They will not cause "atmospheric" fires other than an aurora borealis as indicated in the Carrington Event.

Regarding the above mentioned book "One Second After".... Excellent read on the societal effects of an EMP... Although I slightly disagree with the authors employment of the EMP event in the book, I do believe he hit the nail on the head on its after effects. I believe we are more likely to be hit with a Solar EMP than a Nuclear EMP.... SDI is alive an well... thank you Ronald Reagan

[Recently_Awoken]

The EMP is categorized 3 types. An E1 pulse is a very fast pulse that generates very high voltages. This one can destroy computers and communications equipment and is too fast for ordinary lightning protectors. I believe this type of pulse is the (Fast pulse) generated by a Nuclear detonation and is limited to "cone line of sight" or "cone of sight". Some of our SCADA architectures will protect data lines on the edges of a nuclear (Hight altitude) EMP (but don't quote me on this). The E2 component of the pulse is the easiest to protect against, and is kind of like the pulse produced by lightning. The E3 component of the pulse is a very slow pulse, and may last several minutes. This one can be caused by the nuclear detonation pushing earth's magnetic field out of the way or a Solar Event. The E3 is much like a geomagnetic storm caused by a very severe solar flare.
Google the 1859 Carrington Event for more about an E3. NASA has a pretty good article about this event. Some scientists believe we are due for another one of these SUPER SOLAR events, within the next two years. Now the Carrington Event had little effect on the infrastructure of Europe and North America simply because we were in the early stages of technological development of the 19th century and the only real effects were telegraph lines being influenced. Because (most) modern electronics are not insulated against this type of event, the effects are speculated to be catastrophic. This has a subject of record back in 2005. The following is a quote from a House debate on EMP effects in the US.

[Congressional Record: June 9, 2005 (House)]

This likely consequence of a high-altitude nuclear burst was
corroborated by Dr. Lowell Wood, who in a field hearing at the Johns
Hopkins University applied physics laboratory, made the observation
that a burst like this above our atmosphere creating this
electromagnetic pulse would be like a giant continental time machine
turning us back to the technology of 100 years ago. It is very obvious
that the population of today in its distribution could not be supported
by the technology of 100 years ago. And I asked Dr. Wood, I said, ``Dr.
Wood, clearly the technology of 100 years ago could not support our
present population in its distribution,'' and his unemotional response
was, ``Yes, I know. The population will shrink until it can be
supported by the technology.''
Just a word, Mr. Speaker, about what this EMP is. It is very much
like a really giant solar storm. All of us are familiar with solar
storms and with the disruption to our communication systems. And this
is like a really giant solar storm. It is kind of like really intense
static electricity everywhere all at once, all over the whole country.
It is sort of like a lightning strike that is not just isolated to one
spot. Different than a lightning strike in terms of the intensities and
so forth and the spectrum, but it would be everywhere all at once over
a very large area.

[Page H4340-H4345]

The average Joe wanting to protect sensitive electronics has only one choice. Build a Faraday cage or Field expedient Faraday cage. The data I have suggests that putting your stuff under ground will not provide protection. The pulse will go into the earth deeper than you can dig. The only thing one can do is direct this energy around your device or devices. (Faraday)...
Building one is not too difficult, grounding is also important. There are several valid sources out there for building your own Faraday. I have a working Faraday, but am looking into the possibility of using a microwave as a "reverse" faraday...

Regarding vehicles. As far as I am concerned, any newer vehicle is subject to the effects of an EMP Event. This is proven by way of the new Law enforcement technology for disabling vehicles using small scale EMP generators. Unless you own a 1968 Mustang plan on some form of Bipedalism...

Oh... I forgot.. Regarding Solar EMP Events: Data suggests they do not have an effect on humans. They will not cause "atmospheric" fires other than an aurora borealis as indicated in the Carrington Event.

Regarding the above mentioned book "One Second After".... Excellent read on the societal effects of an EMP... Although I slightly disagree with the authors employment of the EMP event in the book, I do believe he hit the nail on the head on its after effects. I believe we are more likely to be hit with a Solar EMP than a Nuclear EMP.... SDI is alive an well... thank you Ronald Reagan

And I'm off to renew my efforts/research on a faraday cage! THANK YOU for the extremely detailed information you have provided here!!! Hminus, THANKS!!!

RA

[tbkbtk123]

I am listening to this radio broadcast as I am typing this. It sounds very interesting.

http://offthegridnews.com/2010/08/13/interview-with-john-kappenman/

Let me know what you think.

[tbkbtk123]

As stated, I am currently listening to the link posted, I did not know that there would be commercials and I do hope that this does not violate the rules of posting.

[hminus]

Very good information! good find..