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  • #46
    Just in case anyone feels that I am being wishy-washy, or unclear. If the SHTF "Bigtime" you can not be too far from other human animals. Even if they are Christ Like, wonderful humans, they will be monsters, if it is their children dying or YOU. Start to come to gripes, with........there will likely "NOT" be a period of assessing, and making decisions, then you get to re-assess the situation, and re-tweek your action-plan. Just get away from humans "Now" as soon as possible.
    One day you eat the chicken.....next day the left-over chicken.....next five days you eat chicken feathers, head and feet.

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    • #47
      There is going to be a time when we have to make some tough choices. The choices I am trying to make now is based on my surroundings and the fact I am right in the middle of what used to be country for us is now turning into a town of sorts. We have military all around us, we have industrial places around us. Shipyards as well. Has anyone thought also that in a SHTF situation that the prisnors in jails will also be turned loose because they can't feed them? There are so many if's to staying and fight what might be imposible or moving on. I do agree we need to have a second and maybe even a third place to run to if we need to leave our homes. I have now got hubby to agree to make a trip to my home town and then to check out a couple of places in W. VA. This will be one of the places we will go to if we ever need to leave our home. We will have lots of catches there to sustain us if need be. Plans need to be in place. We need to look at our surroundings. Yes I live in a neighborhood with another neighborhood right next door with our second way out being that neighborhood. Sota our back door if something were to happen in this neighborhood. There is only two other people that I know of that are preppers. One is only somewhat the other is heavy into it. So on that note, yes I would not be able to withstand a gun fight of a multitude of people.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by jimLE View Post
        So a plan can be made.if a person decides to stand their ground.then they need to have at least 2 or 3 escape route's planned out.just incase they to get out fast.
        This likely is better posted to a thread on bug in vs bug out but since the conversation has sort of went that direction I wanted to add some food for thought I don't see talked about or included. We often see the solid recommendation of laying out and documenting an escape plan and that we should having (3) or more Bug Out Locations (BOL's) or maybe it's (3) rally points (RP) for all family members to meet up from the various places they are during our day. We also are told to have least (3) routes planned out to reach each of them. And I ttotally agree and there are numerous options off of those ideas. Something I don't think is an option though is that we really need to review each of those routes and travel them. I think it is important when looking and planning this, we need to go out and drive, hike or bike the potential route we've laid out. But dont just see what is there today, go to fantasy island and see in your mind what might or could be there. Will it be safe or even passable.

        Examples I think of are:

        - does your planned route pass next to or close to a govt housing project (or even a jail) that those living there may quickly take control or barricades by gangs or others out for no good.

        - Does a route pass by or down wind of a chemical plant where if the event is an accident there it might block passage

        - are there low spots or bridges that might easily flood out and block you

        - are their bridges over rivers or highway overpasses that could be knocked down, barricaded, or simply blocked with traffic or broke down and out of gas vehicles that once again block the path.

        I suggest we all lay out our planned routes and then drill into them under a microscope. On a first level closely review the route on Google maps on both street and satellite view. look for features or places that jump out at you. Are there things that jump out as a concern, do you see things close to your route you didn't even know was there?

        Now go drive it, better yet have your spouse or other do the driving so you can concentrate, observe and take notes;see what they see, notice or what their impressions are and also get a few pics of maybe road signs, landmarks etc. Make notes of places like gas stations, grocery stores, Walmarts, dollar stores, dr offices/ emergi-care places, pharmacies, gun shops, outdoor stores, and so on. Maybe your out ahead of the herd and you need something on the way out, now you know right where to go and you're not stumbling around in an unknown area trying to find a gas station. this way you look at you Bug Out Route Plan and know there is a gas station 2 miles ahead.

        Maybe things are already getting nuts by the time you are on the way out of town. Well then the info you now have on your route might let you know places to avoid or a route to completely ignore. As you closely look at the route and as you drive it, maybe you deviate at a few places that you see as choke points and make notes on if you can find a bypass around it?

        It's extra time but I think well worth it. Depending on how far your BOL or RP is away it could take time and if it is a long distance maybe you just really focus on the bigger area or more troublesome spots on you r route. So maybe this is a weekend ride along the route to your RP and then it's back home along one of your other planned routes. If you live in a big city or more congested area, maybe you even go to the extent of driving the routes on a weekend, during morning rush hour, during evening rush hour, etc. to get a feel for how conditions are and how they can change.

        I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by CountryGuy View Post

          This likely is better posted to a thread on bug in vs bug out but since the conversation has sort of went that direction I wanted to add some food for thought I don't see talked about or included. We often see the solid recommendation of laying out and documenting an escape plan and that we should having (3) or more Bug Out Locations (BOL's) or maybe it's (3) rally points (RP) for all family members to meet up from the various places they are during our day. We also are told to have least (3) routes planned out to reach each of them. And I ttotally agree and there are numerous options off of those ideas. Something I don't think is an option though is that we really need to review each of those routes and travel them. I think it is important when looking and planning this, we need to go out and drive, hike or bike the potential route we've laid out. But dont just see what is there today, go to fantasy island and see in your mind what might or could be there. Will it be safe or even passable.

          Examples I think of are:

          - does your planned route pass next to or close to a govt housing project (or even a jail) that those living there may quickly take control or barricades by gangs or others out for no good.

          - Does a route pass by or down wind of a chemical plant where if the event is an accident there it might block passage

          - are there low spots or bridges that might easily flood out and block you

          - are their bridges over rivers or highway overpasses that could be knocked down, barricaded, or simply blocked with traffic or broke down and out of gas vehicles that once again block the path.

          I suggest we all lay out our planned routes and then drill into them under a microscope. On a first level closely review the route on Google maps on both street and satellite view. look for features or places that jump out at you. Are there things that jump out as a concern, do you see things close to your route you didn't even know was there?

          Now go drive it, better yet have your spouse or other do the driving so you can concentrate, observe and take notes;see what they see, notice or what their impressions are and also get a few pics of maybe road signs, landmarks etc. Make notes of places like gas stations, grocery stores, Walmarts, dollar stores, dr offices/ emergi-care places, pharmacies, gun shops, outdoor stores, and so on. Maybe your out ahead of the herd and you need something on the way out, now you know right where to go and you're not stumbling around in an unknown area trying to find a gas station. this way you look at you Bug Out Route Plan and know there is a gas station 2 miles ahead.

          Maybe things are already getting nuts by the time you are on the way out of town. Well then the info you now have on your route might let you know places to avoid or a route to completely ignore. As you closely look at the route and as you drive it, maybe you deviate at a few places that you see as choke points and make notes on if you can find a bypass around it?

          It's extra time but I think well worth it. Depending on how far your BOL or RP is away it could take time and if it is a long distance maybe you just really focus on the bigger area or more troublesome spots on you r route. So maybe this is a weekend ride along the route to your RP and then it's back home along one of your other planned routes. If you live in a big city or more congested area, maybe you even go to the extent of driving the routes on a weekend, during morning rush hour, during evening rush hour, etc. to get a feel for how conditions are and how they can change.
          Country,

          Love your post. I would mention a couple things. If your doing this, someone has violently pushed you out of your location. When planning your routes remember to always use concealment and cover at every available moment. Concealment means your enemy can't see you but bullets can still hurt you. Cover means the enemy can't see or shoot you. Cover is preferred. Stay low as you go. The lower you are, the harder you are to see.

          The other thing would be to run your routes at different times of day and night. Gives you an idea of how much the area is used currently and if there is any time of day that particular routes shouldn't be used. The same goes for checking your route during and after weather events and different seasons. A route that is great in the summer months may suck in the winter.

          Just a thought.

          Dale

          Comment


          • #50
            Countryguy and Dale, you both make great points. With my surroundings we should have been planning a long time ago. But I did what my daughter wanted and waited for her to do what she was going to do and move onto her property with her and son in law. But then she decided she wasn't going to make that move and went back to college. Going back to college was fine but it also put us in a tight spot by waiting. It has taken me years to get hubby on board with prepping for bad times and just a couple weeks or so ago I talked him into driving out to the country. He did ok on that short trip but the next one will be to my grandparents old homestead. We will be visiting my cousins for a couple of days and from there after he has rested, we will drive out to W. VA and look around. Then after 3 or 4 days in W. VA we will return to visit with my cousins again so he can rest and then head back home. I can't say that is where we will buy land or not but I am going to check out a couple of places. I would rather find somewhere that would be closer to us because we would have to make a decision to leave or not just before a SHTF situation and that would be a tough call that we might not be able to call at the right timing. Country here depending on which way we go could put us closer to a neuclar power plant which would be bad. And going the other direction still might not be the best option either. So lots of research going on. I have even thought about PA but not quite sure of that at this time.

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            • #51
              Well AJ, We luv PA but we're partial having grown up here. Land can be cheap, taxes are so-so depending on where you are, gun laws are pretty good (again depending on your county) lots of great hunting, fishing and great growing season though shorter than what's in VA. Lots of streams, lakes and ponds to be had along with State gamelands and parks.

              The winters might be something you don't want though. Have you considered western NC or SC also?
              I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

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              • #52
                Country I have thought about the Carolinas up toward the mountains. But again when Florence hit I found out there are 4 power plants around there. 2 in N.. Carolina and 2 in S. Carolina. So I would have to think of the location I would want if we go that route. We won' t be able to avoid a lot of things but there are some things we would like to avoid if at all possible.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Applejack View Post
                  Country I have thought about the Carolinas up toward the mountains. But again when Florence hit I found out there are 4 power plants around there. 2 in N.. Carolina and 2 in S. Carolina. So I would have to think of the location I would want if we go that route. We won' t be able to avoid a lot of things but there are some things we would like to avoid if at all possible.
                  AJ, If your looking for land in WV you might to consider access to medical care. I remember that your husband has a heart condition and good medical isn't what I would call "widely available". You might want to consider border counties within driving distance of Charlottesville, Va or counties in the Kanawha valley area. The Kanawha valley area though is much more populated than most of WV and has a number of chemical plants in the valley.

                  When I had my heart attack, I had to life flighted to Charleston for treatment. A 45 minute flight for a cheap $34,000.00. Which almost caused a second heart attack. LOL!

                  Just a thought.

                  Dale

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Applejack View Post
                    Country I have thought about the Carolinas up toward the mountains. But again when Florence hit I found out there are 4 power plants around there. 2 in N.. Carolina and 2 in S. Carolina. So I would have to think of the location I would want if we go that route. We won' t be able to avoid a lot of things but there are some things we would like to avoid if at all possible.
                    AJ if you're worried about nukes, you have weighed in where you currently live, right? Your sitting right next to the location of and target for hundreds of nukes. All the nuke capable tomahawks on board ship, nuke torpedoes, the subs, Yorktown weapons station. Not doubt Norfolk and surrounding region is a massive bullseye for Russia, China and any other nuke capable enemy. The power plants you mentioned in the Carolina are minimal issue and our systems are designed to scramble if anything goes wrong. not 1000% foolproof but not Chernobyl either. If it is the power plants that worry you, where are the ones in VA located and how are you situated from them down wind?
                    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Out of curiosity I just looked something up on location of nuclear power plants in VA. Do you know that Dominion has a plant in Surry right on James River, the Dominion Surry Power Station. Not far from you at all if as I recall your near Suffolk, correct?
                      I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Countryguy I am very aware of the Surry neuclear plant. My ex many years ago was helping to build there in 1972 when it went under water. That is also where he met his 1st girl friend. His whole family was like that, running around. Took 4 girl friends before I finally said enough. That was one of the biggest floods up through Richmond where we lived at the time. Appts. had water in second floors. They were jumping from second floor windows into boats. We saw dead cows floating down the river. I am very much in danger from that with wind factor as well as the other things you mention above. I do have a need to get out of this area.

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                        • #57
                          BUMP for conversation........and giggles.
                          One day you eat the chicken.....next day the left-over chicken.....next five days you eat chicken feathers, head and feet.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Okay this is a great thread and has presented a lot of valid points. So I will jump on the band wagon and present a few of my thoughts. Best defense, get as far from people and populations centers (not just cites but even small towns) and hunker down. Next is make sure you have a way to feed and shelter you and your family. You must have rabbit hole (emergency exits), fire fights are a last resort and only if you are trapped. Now I am not saying to abandon your homestead (rural location) but simply leave the grounds, get family to a safe location and then go about sniping away at the intruders. Unless you are very well off, most will not be able to abandon their primary residence. I would have been hated in the old west, cause I do not believe in a fair fight. I would have been the back shooter. I believe in hit and run. I do not plan to stand and fight but I doubt you will leave my property standing.

                            Now the subject has been touched upon with regard to booby traps. In a WROL situation, you can turn your residence into a kill zone and not get involved in a fire fight to defend it. Slow acting poison tainted food will take care of some if not all the intruders that survive the other home traps. Smoke bombs to drive intruders out of the house, making them prime targets. It is your house, so you will know where they will be exiting from. There are dozens of ways to deal with intruders without getting into a fire fight. If your home is well stocked, you have plenty of time to hit and run. You will know all the blind spots, so if they try to stay indoor, then you know where to hit them and then run. They will not be able to carry off all your supplies or eat all your supplies before you can take them out, one at a time. Again, no fire fights.

                            An urban situation works about the same, just a bit harder to get rid of the bodies. In an urban situation, it will be easier to get surrounded, thus preventing exiting. It would be nice to have an underground exit, but very difficult to get it built. That would be something to look at when the building inspectors have been laid off, with nobody to come question your construction project. If flight is not possible (back to (WROL), then you should have already blocked your yard with obstacles., set traps on all windows openings and boarded up all windows and doors. This is the only time to get in a fire fight, when there is no escape. Discretion is the better part of Valor. I never want the intruders to even see me once. If I send them to their fate without them ever knowing what happen, then I have done my job properly. In a WROL /SHTF event, I do not plan on taking prisoners, ever, under any circumstances. JM2c
                            It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war!

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                            • #59
                              Bumpy-Bumpy
                              One day you eat the chicken.....next day the left-over chicken.....next five days you eat chicken feathers, head and feet.

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                              • #60
                                Can you run? Yes but some of us cannot; due to youngsters, health, age, and location. So instead of looking for places to hide, we are looking to remain quite, using stealth to do most things like gardening, cooking, etc. Plus I have built and rebuilt my home until it is like a bunker on steroids We have looked at moving to our farm forever but just cannot get away from family that refuses to move. Jobs you know .

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