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What if you are not one of the WOLVERINES!

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  • What if you are not one of the WOLVERINES!

    In spite of all efforts some of us, myself included, will wind up in a camp or occupied area where if we keep our head down and do as we are told we will be able to survive. So, how do we do this? Who do we trust? What can we do to monkey wrench the 'keepers' and still stay alive. No one wants to die, me included so nothing stupid. If I must die for my God and my country I want it to mean something. What can we do besides stay alive out of spite? Or is that impossible for you to think about or to personal to relate? Anyone one been there, done that? What does the military teach?

  • #2
    I think it might be about time for people to get their affairs in order. We don't know what the future holds for any of us any longer. We might die on this planet but our soles will live on in Christ. Not sure what the military is teaching. I had a military preacher at our church for about five years and he very much taught the Bible to all the military men and women. We all just need to be ready for whatever happens and pray that nothing happens that is really bad.

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    • #3
      Don't get caught. Fight to the death.

      Simple.

      -Buggy
      I'm not a fatalist. I'm a realist.

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      • #4
        Buggy - I got your back!!!!!

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        • #5
          ZAGran: I think that is why we are so ardent about prepping. We are probably to a person, fiercely independent. We will not be the sheeple, and will never go into a shelter. I do not have any first hand experience, but everything I have read about government shelters are horror stories. I think I would take my chances on the street before I went into a shelter.

          To answer your question in the strictest sense ( you are already in the shelter, right? Maybe against your will? ) I think you become the gray man. Blend in so that no one knows you are there. Go with the flow. Keep your eyes and ears open, and your mouth shut. Watch for the right time and opportunity to change your situation. I wouldn't trust anybody. I'm not even sure I would trust a blood relative in that type of situation. Just my 2 cents.
          The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

          Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you are stupid, and make bad decisions.

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          • #6
            Morgan, my basic instinct tells me you are right. Instead of thinking of "gray man" I tend to think "mouse". I identify better with that. A mouse is small, gray, stays around the edges, and is quick to make itself invisible and hide if possible.
            On another note a mother mouse feeds her babies AFTER she is eats and drinks, otherwise she would soon die as would her babies. You are no good to your children if you are suffering from dehydration and starvation. You can't even think in this condition let alone teach them how to survive.

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            • #7
              Excellent analogy ZAGran. I really like that.
              The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

              Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you are stupid, and make bad decisions.

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              • #8
                Years ago I was with 12th Special Forces Group. They were a part of the Army Reserves. While with the 12th we did various scenarios involving the U.S. having been invaded and conquered by different foreign nations. Most of the scenarios had interesting twists to them based upon different computer (primitive) simulations and computations.

                In almost all the simulations it was determined that the whole U.S. could not be conquered by any foreign power. There would be areas where a hostile force could control but that these conquered areas would be like small enclaves until we got our act together and booted the enemy out or destroyed them in mass. Some of these scenarios indicated a very long timeline for us to overwhelm and take back what was ours. Trouble was that in the process, the loss of American lives would also be extremely high too.

                Where we have the advantage is that our side is always ahead of most foreign powers in technology and combat experienced troops. For many years we had millions of combat experienced veterans of fighting age that the Russians and Chinese lacked to any great number up until they got involved in wars after we did. Now the Russians have a good number of combat experienced troops with some technological training. The Chinese are trying to develop a strong military so they're copying our troops and equipment except for going with their newer 5.8 caliber rifles and machineguns.

                Any way, we have some technology that is head and shoulders above anything that the potential enemy forces will ever have. While they may get a foothold on our soil, the enemy forces sure will not be able to stay here for very long. The idea of Wolverines, while valid to a certain point, won't be one that lasts a real long time because of the stuff and people that we have inside of our borders.

                I'll give you a basic idea. Let's say that a combined Russo-Chinese force invades and takes over the Seattle-Tacoma area. Before the enemy can expand from their invasion site various Airborne and Special Forces groups will be dropped into the woodlands and mountains to the east of the SeaTac Combat Zone. Those American Airborne Forces will then move to form a circle all the way around the enemy to contain them and locate all their positions for bombing by drones and USAF planes. A CAP (Combat Air Patrol of airplanes and drones) will keep the enemy from massing any large quantities of armored vehicles. Anti-tank mines and command detonated explosives, placed on the roads, will also keep the enemy from breaking out of their predicament. When we are ready and have the troops and vehicles in place, that's when we attack, overwhelm and take back the SeaTac Area. Repeat as needed until we've beat the enemy in our nation.

                So, now you see how some of this will work. There is some stuff that I have left out. One hint I can give you: It is pretty much thought that the center of the nation will just about always remain outside of enemy control to one degree or another depending upon the direction of attack or invasion.

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                • #9
                  ZaGran, this is a good and real world scenario, but those that have had the military training to deal with this also know to keep there mouth shut for now. Personally, I'm to old now to do what I could as a young man but I'm a good instructor. Any enemy that is advanced enough to attack us and hold ground will have the intelligence data on citizens that are persons of interest (certain veterans, LEO's, government agents, etc.) and many of us would be killed upon discovery just to prevent us from being insurgents or instigators.

                  If this happens and you could find someone that has been SERE trained in the military, preferably at least level C phase II, learn from them.

                  Levels Of Sere Training

                  SERE training takes place at four levels:

                  Level A: Entry level training. These are the Code of Conduct mandatory classes taken by all at induction (recruit training and OCS). All service personnel get this basic training annually.

                  Level B: For those operating or expected to operate forward of the division rear boundary and up to the forward line of own troops (FLOT). Normally limited to aircrew of the Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. Level B focuses on survival and evasion, with resistance in terms of initial capture.

                  Level C: For troops at a high risk of capture and whose position, rank or seniority make them vulnerable to greater than average exploitation efforts by any captor. Level C focuses on resistance in terms of prison camps.

                  Level D: For aircrews, but more recently phased out; what would have been SERE-D students in future undergo SERE-C training at Fairchild.

                  Dale
                  Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

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                  • #10
                    There is one way they could effect all Americans and that is with a Pandemic (Man made) Something like rabies crossed with simple flu virus. We would either stay away from each other (Normal pandemic procedures) or become sick together like the 1918 Spanish Flu; (My Uncle died from it in 1919 while returning (on ship) from the western front. With a world wide pandemic and only the enemy holding the cure we would have vary little choice.

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                    • #11
                      Interesting topic! Of course, when you say 'the WOLVERINES!', my first thought was THIS kind of Wolverine:
                      Click image for larger version

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                      (GO BLUE! :-) )
                      (Sadly, that poster is from the good old days when U of M had a better track record than of late. I'd like to see a little 'Make U of M Football Great Again', frankly.)

                      BUT getting back to on topic:

                      I'm always going to think in terms of looking to history for ideas and examples, so...

                      There are probably a lot of examples from WW II, in terms of how people in occupied areas managed to both survive and gum things up to some degree for the Nazis.

                      I like this one--whether you look at it from the young man who was trying to stay with his family, or the doctor--the article is focused on him--who helped him: The Polish Doctors Who Used Science to Outwit the Nazis

                      Here's bit from the article about the doctor:

                      The Reich had an interest in keeping some ethnic Poles out of slave camps. The Fatherland needed food, and rural Poland was the place to grow the grain that would keep Germany’s bellies full. Local farms, for their part, were given unattainable production quotas. The Nazis also hijacked Poland’s industry. And Lazowski, as a Polish Catholic, was conscripted to Germany’s cause, too. His job was to keep these Polish servants of the Reich—especially those working in the Stalowa Wola steelworks—healthy.

                      The doctor secretly saw his work differently: to help his fellow Poles live through the occupation so they could rebuild the country they loved.
                      He was lucky to have the medical knowledge and, by chance, a means of producing a false positive for typhus, if his patients were tested for it--which he made sure to have happen. But apart from having medical knowledge and luck in terms of the means to create a false positive for typhus, his basic cleverness in creating a false typhus outbreak is pretty impressive. That kind of clever approach to countering an occupying force seems pretty powerful.

                      Later, talking more generally about how Poles resisted during the war, there's this--which probably isn't a surprise to anyone, but still:

                      Underground militants bombed bridges, roads, railroad tracks, and trains almost daily. Farmers who were supposed to send grain to the German front forged papers and smuggled provisions to hungry locals. Saboteurs targeted the local steel works. All of these attacks crippled German arms production in the region by 30 percent.
                      In addition to those two ways of actively resisting, an example that comes to mind from Stephen Ambrose's book about the D-Day landings (if I'm remembering correctly) is that the French Resistance put some sort of abrasive into the wheel bearings of the RR cars the Germans used to move tanks (and/or other resources?). Result = Germans not only couldn't move their equipment, but those RR lines were blocked by the stuck, loaded RR cars.

                      I love the idea of that sort of sabotage. And even just the word 'sabotage' tells a similar story: 1800s era French workers' wore wooden shoes called 'sabots'. To resist the control and unemployment that factory machines were bringing about, they threw their shoes into the gears of the machines.

                      Apart from active undermining of an occupation--which probably led to a LOT of people being tortured and killed, so that's a big risk--there's also the more passive gathering of info and passing it along to those who are more actively resisting.

                      But in terms of personal survival, it's hard to say how such a situation would test one's character. What would you do if someone had a gun--literally or figuratively--to your loved one's head? Lying low so as to avoid that sort situation makes a lot of sense, but heroes like the Polish doctor in the story didn't seem to let that stop them.

                      Been there, done that. Then been there again several times, because apparently I never learn.

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                      • #12
                        Great contributions by everyone. The more varied ideas we have to ponder the better!

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                        • #13
                          I have never heard of wolverines, I have periodically heard of Sheep Dogs with regard to the Sheeple.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by grumpygremlin View Post
                            I have never heard of wolverines, I have periodically heard of Sheep Dogs with regard to the Sheeple.
                            It's a reference to an 80's movie "Red Dawn". They were kids who performed low intensity conflict and called themselves thus. Hehe.

                            -Buggy
                            I'm not a fatalist. I'm a realist.

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                            • #15
                              I do not think that anyone who is/was in the military or law enforcement would roll over! Not on my watch. When I joined I took an oath to protect this land and no; one even after all these years has said that my oath was finished! Till the day I die!!!!!

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