Tyranny

[Rustyshakelford]

Thou Shalt Not Protest to Police

Robbie Tolan will likely live the rest of his life with a bullet lodged in his liver.

It's a painful reminder of his encounter last Wednesday with a white Bellaire police officer, who fired at least three shots at the unarmed 23-year-old black man in his own driveway.

Bellaire police and city officials have said Sgt. Jeff Cotton mistakenly thought Tolan's Nissan Xterra had been stolen, but Tolan's relatives say he was a victim of racial profiling and did nothing to justify being shot as his parents watched outside their home.

As of last week, neither Tolan nor his family had received an apology from police, and the young man was still in intensive care while Cotton was put on paid vacation while the department sorted out the details.

And as you might expect, the department's version of events differs from the family's.

According to a statement later released by Bellaire police, officers approached Tolan and Cooper under the mistaken belief that their 2004 Nissan Xterra had been stolen.

Police said an argument broke out as the officers tried to detain and question the two men, but family members said both Tolan and Cooper complied after officers ordered them, at gunpoint, to drop to the ground.

Drawn by the commotion, Tolan's parents came outside. His mother, Marian Tolan, told police she was the homeowner and that her son's car wasn't stolen, said Berg, the family's attorney. He said Sgt. Cotton grabbed the 55-year-old woman and threw her against her garage door. When her son rose slightly from the ground to protest, Cotton fired, striking him once in the abdomen, Berg said. At least two other shots missed and somehow wound up in the ceiling of the home's front porch.

What if you or I just decided to pull a gun and shoot an unarmed civilian who posed no mortal threat to us? The police would take every opportunity to portray us as violent threats to society as they tracked us down and locked us up. Yet the police are often allowed to apply lethal force in response to detainees who simply question their authority or disobey orders.

[Big_Saw]

Sounds to me like the Magistrates are in effect, eh Rus?

[Rustyshakelford]

Sounds to me like the Magistrates are in effect, eh Rus?

I am afraid so.

[Ragnar Redbeard]

Another side of the same coin

This will more than likely make some people angry with me…

Being an ex-LEO, I usually take the side of the LEO due to the fact that I know for a fact how it feels for situations to go very bad. It is easy to second judge an incident after the fact and when an article is written in a biased manner, not in a factual manner, it only makes it worse. Usually there are many upset people crowed around, yelling, screaming and making many fast hand movements. The officer has to watch the crowd, the supposed bad guys, his partner and his own butt. Your mind is racing a million miles an hour and a thousand scenarios are going thru your head.


Here is just a portion of the story.

Drawn by the commotion, Tolan's parents came outside. His mother, Marian Tolan, told police she was the homeowner and that her son's car wasn't stolen (this does not mean anything, people say a whole lot of truths and untruths at the scene, an officer cannot just take what anyone STATES as fact…trust no one, verify everything), said Berg, the family's attorney (Notice this article is told by the family’s attorney). He said Sgt. Cotton grabbed the 55-year-old woman and threw her against her garage door (Why did he grab her? Usually at the scene, family members usually become very agitated and at times violent towards the officers on scene. The officers have to maintain strict control or the situation can/will get totally out of control, instant compliance is required.) When her son rose slightly (Sorry, this can be a very pivotal point in a situation gone bad. If you rise even slightly, it more than likely will be understood that you are going for a weapon. You may be going for a weapon or you may not…either way...you do not move., you will get shot…This article is obliviously written in a one sided way. it does not really provide very much information about the victims “slight” movement, even though the shooting was based on the “slight” movement.) the ground to protest, Cotton fired, striking him once in the abdomen, Berg said. At least two other shots missed and somehow wound up in the ceiling of the home's front porch.
Notice how the author of the story belittles the LEO by stating how two shots missed and "somehow" wound up in the ceiling…this is normal in any unexpected shooting. I have talked to fellow LEO’s who have been in the very same situation and they stated that they had no idea how many rounds they fired or where they went.
Try to rewrite this article in your mind in a pro LEO format.
“A large crowd threatened both of the officer’s safety as a hysterical 55 year old female, claiming to be Tolens mother, charged the officers. As the officer tried to get the female under control, tensions drastically peaked. The sudden rising movement of Tolen from his prone position caused the officer to discharge his weapon in fearing for the safety of his partner, many innocent bystanders including children and his own personal safety
Ok, so I am not a writer but you get the point.

To apologize to the family at this point would imply guilt.

By moving in an upward motion like he did, he definitely posed a possible mortal threat –to everyone.
Let’s say Tolen did have a gun and came up shooting and kills three children innocently standing close by. Then the officer would be wrong for not shooting. This is practiced in shoot or don’t shoot scenarios during BLET.

Of course this is just another view, I could be wrong.

[Big_Saw]

I wanna know how the guy was shot in the abdomen while rising from a prone position.....was the officer underneath him? Doubt it, but it seems like another magic bullet theory....unless he caught a rebound ff the ground, which would explain the shots in the ceiling easily....

The problem I have is the standard mentality of "guilty until proven innocent." The officers could just as easily ran a check, letting the young man up off the ground with his dignity intact, and the whole problem could've been avoided....

Most people don't dislike the po-pos because of their job...they dislike them because most SOPs have a way of humiliating contacts. No one enjoys being treated in such a way, and most people with half a testicle will rebel against it.

Just my $0.02....

[Visinedrops]

I understand your point of view, Ragnar, and through training as an armed guard, it has been drilled into our brains that deadly force is a LAST RESORT. The only problem I see in this scenario is the hasty actions made by the LEO's at the scene, and the use of deadly force in an inappropriate way.

Granted, the individual did attempt to rise from the ground, but only AFTER he recognized a threat to his mother. Had his mother stayed on the porch, this incident would probably not have happened.

Fault lies not in the face of danger, but in the actions taken to prevent such an occurrance.

[Big_Saw]

+1...guilty or innocent, if someone put their hands on my mom, regardless of her actions, It'd be on like Donkey Kong in the middle of Hong Kong, wearing a thong and eating Ding Dongs.....they'd probably have to shoot me too....;)

[Rustyshakelford]

Just an innocent victim in my opinion. Someone tries to arrest me for stealing my own vehicle, I think I would end up with my name in the papers as a dead man too.

[CJD]

[QUOTE=Ragnar Redbeard;7573]Notice how the author of the story belittles the LEO by stating how two shots missed and "somehow" wound up in the ceiling…this is normal in any unexpected shooting. I have talked to fellow LEO’s who have been in the very same situation and they stated that they had no idea how many rounds they fired or where they went.

There is no way that an LEO should not know how many rounds were fired and where they went with only three shots. The fact that three shots were fired and two missed is unacceptable. Definitely a lack of gun safety and training.

I understand that LEO's have a difficult job and are often in dangerous situations. I am willing to cut them a lot of slack. Unfortunately, many LEO's don't seem to remember that their job is to protect and serve not alienate and antagonize. They would get a lot more cooperation from the public if they were friendlier and not percieved as local government revenue generators.

[Ragnar Redbeard]

I agree with you, it is unacceptable but it happens very often. It’s just a fact of life.

I remember when I was 18 yoa and an MP in the Army, on my first day; I incorrectly cleared my .45 and shot the clearing barrel twice. I heard one shot. My hand was shaking so bad I am surprised that I did not shoot everyone around me. I was in total shock, people were dropping to the ground or running for their lives (at this time there were quite a few Vietnam boys around, they dropped the quickest, lol).

I received a serious alpha charley from the brass, a look of distain from the super troopers and two weeks extra duty in supply.

The point is, all I heard was one shot. I argued the point at first but the spent brass on the ground proved me wrong.



Now as for Tolen….



The vehicle driven by Tolen was stopped because the plates came back stolen

>Bellaire police have said an officer checked the license plates on Tolan's vehicle and it came back as stolen, which brought several officers to the home. Police acknowledged the report was in error.<



>An attorney representing Tolan is claiming a clear-cut case of racial profiling against the white Bellaire cop who shot Tolan, an African-American, while Tolen was lying on his back on the ground.< Tolen was shot in the abdomen because he was on his back. (Why the individual was on his back is beyond me.)



>Tolan was shot on Dec. 31, around 2 am<This is not racial profiling, but it is the prime time drunk hunting hour where you catch the drunks who think they are clever by leaving the bar 30 minutes early. It is common to check suspicious vehicles at this time of night.



I can understand how this incident can be perceived as a bad shoot. And it may well be...who of us really knows for sure until it all comes to light. By the way the story and other stories of Tolan are written, it does sound like a bad incident. I do not believe that he shot Tolen because he was black though as the many articles try to insinuate.



I guess I am cursed with understanding both sides of the coin, I see both sides because I have been both sides.



Believe me, I do not go on blind LEO faith, I will be the first to condemn this officer once I hear the facts and not what the family lawyer has to say. My jury is still out.



I understand that LEO’s are suppose to be the protectors of mankind, individuals who never make mistakes and always in the know.

The truth is, many become womanizing alcoholics that distrust everyone but a very few.

They usually start out wanting to save the world and end up hating it. The day to day persecution of both the public and the brass start to drastically stack up as the “catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don’t feeling adds further pressure. The job consumes almost your entire waking hours. They only see the very bad that humanity has to offer and then stand by as courts let the people go with a slap on the wrist.

They are constantly faced with the best professional liars in the world on a daily basis and they “must” believe everyone is guilty from the start (simple street survival), anything less drops your guard and could get you killed. They do not have the luxury of second opinion or the option of be able to ponder on a decision to act before they act.

Remember: Its better the be judged by six than carried by twelve.

There are many times that I wish I had stayed on the Fire/Rescue instead of the Police Dept.

Nobody likes a cop, everyone likes a fire fighter.