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  • And it begins again!

    Breaking News, Latest News and Current News from Breaking news and video. Latest Current News: U.S., World, Entertainment, Health, Business, Technology, Politics, Sports.

    Whether you believe in God or not this should send vibrant red flags all over the place!!!!!

    Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit
    Thursday, May 28, 2009

    Print ShareThisPastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a Bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

    "On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the Bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

    "We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a Bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

    A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.
    Your opponet got stronger today, did you?
    {{unswydd-Of One Purpose}}

  • #2
    I'm susprised they weren't arrested by DHS
    The road to serfdom is paved with free electric golf carts.


    • #3
      Originally posted by kenno View Post
      I'm susprised they weren't arrested by DHS
      This is just the beginning Kenno. I see that happening soon.
      Your opponet got stronger today, did you?
      {{unswydd-Of One Purpose}}


      • #4
        Here is some more info..

        A California pastor and his wife who were ordered by county officials to obtain a permit to continue hosting home Bible studies have been told the county's "cease and desist" order will be lifted and they may resume their studies, but they still await written confirmation that the county's threat of fines is over.

        WND first broke the news of Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary, who was confronted by a San Diego County official, grilled over what is said at the couple's Tuesday night Bible studies and then later issued a citation barring the couple from hosting further studies until they obtain a Major Use Permit, the costs of which can escalate into the thousands. Mrs. Jones further reported the county official warned her that hosting the study – deemed a "religious assembly" subject to county codes – without the permit could result in fines escalating from $100 to $1,000.

        Under a deluge of public response and a demand letter from the Western Center for Law & Policy, the county has since backed off its demand and told the couple that they may resume their studies.

        "It appears they're dropping the requirement of a Major Use Permit, and they're not considering them a 'religious assembly' any longer," said Dean Broyles, chief of the law center.

        Broyles told WND that the couple met with county officials and were assured the citation would be rescinded. The county still has a few days left in a five-day window the WCLP established to issue a formal retraction in writing.

        "We're expecting a response from the county momentarily," Broyles said. "They've been telling the press that they're backing out of it, but we'll see what they actually do when they send us a letter."

        Still at question is whether or not the county intends to pursue any action against the Joneses over parking restrictions, which is no trivial matter, asserts the pastor.

        "We're in trouble if they are going to go with a parking issue, because that means that thousands of people in Bible study groups could be cited for a parking violation," Jones said in an interview reported in the San Diego Union-Tribune.

        "What about people who gather to play Texas Hold 'Em, Mommy and Me, 'Monday Night Football,' Boy Scouts, Alcoholics Anonymous? Everyone has a right as a homeowner to the quiet enjoyment of their property," Jones said. "We're not going to let it go."

        Chandra Wallar, the county's general manager of land use and environment, earlier told the press that the county's action wasn't meant to clamp down on free exercise of religion, but to respond to parking and traffic issues.

        "We've advised the pastor he has the authority to continue to hold his meetings just as he's held them," Wallar said. "My hope is we will be able to resolve the traffic concerns."

        Broyles told WND he thought it unlikely that the county will pursue parking restrictions, as the Jones' neighbors have said they have no complaints, but until the Joneses have something in writing, he won't know for certain.

        "We're hoping they don't drop one issue and go after the Joneses on another," Broyles said. "We're hoping that issue will be dropped as well. We're just a little suspicious of their motives at this point."

        After WND first broke the story, it spread to California television and newspapers and from there to CNN, Fox News and the Associated Press. The San Deigo Union-Tribune reports County Supervisor Greg Cox's office received hundreds of e-mail messages from concerned people as the news spread and Wallar said her department received hundreds of e-mails and phone calls as well.

        According to a letter issued by WCLP demanding the county retract its citation, the sequence of events developed this way:

        "On April 10, 2009, Good Friday, a female county employee came to the Joneses' residence. The county employee appeared in the front yard and proceeded to take pictures of our clients' home," the letter said. "She noticed the Joneses' daughters in the front yard and asked to speak with their mother. Although she did not provide any paper work or identification, subsequent information obtained by the WCLP leads us to believe that the county employee who went to the Joneses' residence was Code Enforcement Officer Cherie Cham."

        "Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say 'amen'?" the official reportedly asked. "Do you say, 'Praise the Lord'?"

        The pastor's wife answered yes.

        She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding "religious assemblies" until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars.

        If they fail to pay for the MUP, the county official reportedly warned, the couple would be charged escalating fines beginning at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, "and then it will get ugly."

        "Four things become clear when this case is legally analyzed," said the letter. "First, the Joneses' weekly Bible study is not a 'religious assembly' as defined by the county's ordinances rendering the requirement of an MUP inapplicable. Second, the county's order to stop hosting the weekly Bible study is a blatant violation of the Joneses' First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion.

        "Third, the order also violates their First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. Fourth, the county's action is a substantial burden on the Joneses' ability to practice their religion in violation of the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act of 2000," the letter said.


        • #5
          This is the problem with living in a city. They have odd laws to protect from one thing and the next thing you know, the city has built their case on yet another thing. Some housing developments are equally restrictive...can't paint the house certain colors, can't have a shed for storage, some won't even let you plant a garden!
          Though the city apparently thought it could solve a parking issue by calling it a "religious assembly", I doubt they will persue this. It does bring up questions about gatherings of all sorts. Can one have a family reunion? How about an SCA gathering? When does it stop? I think this will make people more aware of the silly laws that a lot of towns enact and how far reaching the affect may be.
          If it were me, I would create a "car pool" for these people and sing as loud as I could. There are ways around this, but we are allowed to gather/assemble for a multitude of's disturbing, but people need to be aware of what they sign on for when they move to an area.


          • #6
            Originally posted by herbalpagan View Post
            but people need to be aware of what they sign on for when they move to an area.
            This is exactly the problem. the whole reason I posted this. Soon, it won't matter where you move, won't matter if you read the rules, won't matter what the organization. It is coming to all of us.
            Your opponet got stronger today, did you?
            {{unswydd-Of One Purpose}}


            • #7
              I guess you are right...we chose a very small town and more land for this reason though. I think we made it out of the city barely in time.


              • #8
                How's this for a defense, the US Constitution's FIRST AMENDMENT, which reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances” (Bloom p. 81).

                The right of a citizen to peacefully 1) parade and gather or 2) demonstrate support or opposition of public policy or 3) express one’s views is guaranteed by the freedom of speech and the right to peaceably assemble.

                If these people are, by law, required to attain a permit, that is a direct infringment of our first amendment right to peaceably assemble.
                "Reject the basic assumptions of civilization, especially the importance of material possessions." "The things you own end up owning you"-Tyler Durden


                • #9
                  Why am I having trouble not beleiving that this happened? Calif. "LA, LA land". Visine hit the nail right on the head, but I can understand why a DA would even back it, sign it or move forward with such a ticket, fine or argument. Clearly harrassment. It could never find the legs to stand on. Or could it? Sworn to uphold the Constitution, what would the many military and just plain old AMERICANS here do when we witness such?
                  It's like these rats are slowly testing the water. Diging holes in the perimiter to see just how far they can go before being discovered. Discovered for the Rats that they are.
                  "And with a collection of minds and talent, they survived"


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pathfinder3081 View Post
                    It's like these rats are slowly testing the water. Diging holes in the perimiter to see just how far they can go before being discovered. Discovered for the Rats that they are.
                    Not sure they are "testing the water". In Saul Alinski's Rules For Radicals, he tells the Rats to, "Use their laws against them, they follow the law."

                    This is a good example of that.
                    "If Howdy Doody runs against him, I'm voting for the puppet." - SkyOwl's Wife, 2012


                    • #11
                      The county that this happened resinded the order for this and have apologized. I think its deplorable that they ever did it to begin with !
                      Your opponet got stronger today, did you?
                      {{unswydd-Of One Purpose}}