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  • Russian submarines to test-fire missiles in Pacific

    Must be preparing for something :/

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0%2C235...8200%2C00.html
    WHAT IF THE AMERICA YOU KNEW, WAS ABOUT TO CHANGE?

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  • #2
    Well, like a lot of the links from the old days. They don't work any longer. This being back from 08, Does anyone really know what Russia is upto these days? I have heard they have subs that are undetectable in the Atlantic. Don't know this to be true as it seems the news only mentioned it about a year ago and then nothing. But seeing the above post it does make you wonder what's in the wind..

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    • #3
      We can get a good idea of what they're up to. They've partnered with China for a gold backed currency. Together with OPEC have agreed to reduce oil production. Occupying territories between the Caspian and Black seas. It looks to me like more than direct war they are arranging to cripple the dollar. Not trying. Arranging.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ApexOutdoor View Post
        We can get a good idea of what they're up to. They've partnered with China for a gold backed currency. Together with OPEC have agreed to reduce oil production. Occupying territories between the Caspian and Black seas. It looks to me like more than direct war they are arranging to cripple the dollar. Not trying. Arranging.
        I'm no finance expert, but seems to my limited knowledge that we should have never left the gold backed currency...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Applejack View Post
          Well, like a lot of the links from the old days. They don't work any longer. This being back from 08, Does anyone really know what Russia is upto these days? I have heard they have subs that are undetectable in the Atlantic. Don't know this to be true as it seems the news only mentioned it about a year ago and then nothing. But seeing the above post it does make you wonder what's in the wind..
          All subs are detectable when they are moving and none of them are detectable when stationary and in quiet mode.

          Russia has taken to launching propaganda campaigns and claiming advanced weapons systems that are three to four decades more advanced than our current understanding of physics. Their hypersonic nuclear powered cruse missile campaign this past year made me chuckle. Its all just crap.

          But don't take that to mean that Russia is some back woods old-fashioned country still based on vacuum tubes, they do have advanced technologies, they just aren't as good as ours. And truth be told, they really don't need to be in order to provide an adequate war machine for defense.

          We spend big money on advancing weapon technologies, when the technology is a decade old, other countries can just copy it for 1/4 of the price.

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          • #6
            You're right. Our dollar is (rambling economics dissertation omitted) essentially oil backed. Russia and OPEC reducing oil production translates to increased U.S. consumption of U.S. oil and if my theory is correct that equates to us driving down the value of our own currency. Devouring the remnants of a false economy.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ApexOutdoor View Post
              You're right. Our dollar is (rambling economics dissertation omitted) essentially oil backed. Russia and OPEC reducing oil production translates to increased U.S. consumption of U.S. oil and if my theory is correct that equates to us driving down the value of our own currency. Devouring the remnants of a false economy.
              I don't know what the characteristics are of a false economy, I'm not educated enough in economics to have a comprehensive grasp of what that even entails.

              What I do know however, is that the dollar doesn't seem to be based on anything of intrinsic value and that means its actual value can be easily manipulated.

              Of course, I don't see gold as having intrinsic value either.. well, more so than the dollar that is based on nothing obviously, but lets face it, you can't eat gold.. it won't keep you warm, and you have to keep it secure.

              I've always thought we should base our currency on energy... base it on the kilowatt/hr. Everything from oil, natural gas, wood, lakes and streams, etc, can all be tied and converted with mathematical precision back to a unit of energy. We use energy, not gold, to heat our homes, grow our food, and transport us. There is intrinsic value there that can not be manipulated or cheated, and it doesn't change. A kWh today is the exact same as it was throughout all of history.

              Then there's the whole global warming thing. If we base our currency on energy, people will try to save as much energy as they can because its directly tied to wealth. Seems like everyone wins including the environment.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Murphy View Post

                I don't know what the characteristics are of a false economy, I'm not educated enough in economics to have a comprehensive grasp of what that even entails.

                What I do know however, is that the dollar doesn't seem to be based on anything of intrinsic value and that means its actual value can be easily manipulated.

                Of course, I don't see gold as having intrinsic value either.. well, more so than the dollar that is based on nothing obviously, but lets face it, you can't eat gold.. it won't keep you warm, and you have to keep it secure.

                I've always thought we should base our currency on energy... base it on the kilowatt/hr. Everything from oil, natural gas, wood, lakes and streams, etc, can all be tied and converted with mathematical precision back to a unit of energy. We use energy, not gold, to heat our homes, grow our food, and transport us. There is intrinsic value there that can not be manipulated or cheated, and it doesn't change. A kWh today is the exact same as it was throughout all of history.

                Then there's the whole global warming thing. If we base our currency on energy, people will try to save as much energy as they can because its directly tied to wealth. Seems like everyone wins including the environment.
                That's dangerous thinking, Murphy. I like it.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ApexOutdoor View Post

                  That's dangerous thinking, Murphy. I like it.
                  You're probably the only one. Everyone else here hates me because I think differently than they do.

                  I could also be very wrong about the whole energy thing. Its just an idea, and I don't have any Ph.D friends or know anyone educated well enough in the subject to ask.

                  Economics puts me to sleep almost as quickly as history.

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                  • #10
                    I'm not sure how the kW/hr as value would work. For something to have value it must also have scarcity. As you say any carbon base product can be turned, thru some type of work to energy. So if you think on it, with renewable energy like hydro or solar it would be basically limitless and therefore make a kW/hr valueless. Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong way. I see it that the power brokers create artificial shortages in order to drive up value of what they have. if anyone could take a stick and use it as currency it robs the power barons of their monopoly. If you look at cryptocurrency that's where it gets it's value, it's a limited and finite resource. Like gold, it's limited so it has value. if tomorrow someone found a massive ore deposit containing 100 times the current known gold, it would become commodity priced over night, similar to copper or other similar ore.

                    On the oil thing, didn't Khrushchev make some quote in the 50's or 60's about how with their plans communism would take over the west without ever firing a shot thru the manipulation of our own system. On the oil front, if Venezuela would get their heads out of their butts and throw off the socialistic BS they could be one of, if not the wealthiest oil nation in the world. I believe I've read where the estimates have their oil reserves being twice the size of the middle east and I believe it's to be a better grade of crude than the middle east. With all our manipulation in oil countries I'm surprised the US hasn't meddled in their politics more. Or maybe we have and we help keep things unstable to make it easier to seize if we need it. who knows.
                    I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CountryGuy View Post
                      I'm not sure how the kW/hr as value would work. For something to have value it must also have scarcity.
                      If this is a stupid question, don't be shy in saying so.. but... Why must something be scarce in order to have value? I understand that value goes up with scarcity, but value also goes up with utility as well. If you want to see the price go up for utility, check out the prices of land, homes, diabetic insulin, and some drugs. (the list is endless).

                      Dollar bills certainly aren't scarce and they have value. I'm eating a pear right now, it has value, and if SHTF happened, my pear would go up in value quite a bit. and pears literally grow on trees.

                      When I got married, I paid over $60,000 for my wife's diamond. Biggest waste of money I have every spent in my life.. Talk about colossally dumb and foolish things to spend money on! She doesn't even wear jewelry. It could vanish into thin air tomorrow and its value to me (or her) would have no affect other than maybe some sentimental characteristic.

                      Our economy is based on "implied value", but seems to me that it should be based on utility... something that doesn't change over time and is ubiquitous.

                      As you say any carbon base product can be turned, thru some type of work to energy. So if you think on it, with renewable energy like hydro or solar it would be basically limitless and therefore make a kW/hr valueless. Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong way. I see it that the power brokers create artificial shortages in order to drive up value of what they have. if anyone could take a stick and use it as currency it robs the power barons of their monopoly.
                      Exactly! (or so I think). Its the power barons that are the problem, not the theoretical idea of using something of utility.

                      If you look at cryptocurrency that's where it gets it's value, it's a limited and finite resource. Like gold, it's limited so it has value. if tomorrow someone found a massive ore deposit containing 100 times the current known gold, it would become commodity priced over night, similar to copper or other similar ore.
                      When we start mining space rocks, that's exactly what's going to happen. There's more base metals on asteroids than what's available on the Earth.
                      I'll never invest in cryptocurrency, its more empty than a dollar bill from what I can tell. Its basically monopoly money.

                      On the oil thing, didn't Khrushchev make some quote in the 50's or 60's about how with their plans communism would take over the west without ever firing a shot thru the manipulation of our own system. On the oil front, if Venezuela would get their heads out of their butts and throw off the socialistic BS they could be one of, if not the wealthiest oil nation in the world. I believe I've read where the estimates have their oil reserves being twice the size of the middle east and I believe it's to be a better grade of crude than the middle east. With all our manipulation in oil countries I'm surprised the US hasn't meddled in their politics more. Or maybe we have and we help keep things unstable to make it easier to seize if we need it. who knows.
                      I agree we are based (in part) on oil... which basically equates to energy.. actually, not basically, it exactly equates to energy.. so we're already doing it to some degree, we're just doing it in a way that only a baron can manipulate.

                      I think the reason our monetary system causes so many problems is the fact that its not based on anything intrinsic.. (except for oil).. our money, as well as gold, is based on implied value. And I think the origin of that implied value was some prehistoric pyramid dweller who saw a shiny metal and wanted more bling than her followers.

                      You would think that with all our advancements, our society would have changed to what's logical and moved away from things which are inherently irrational, egotistical, and moved by emotion... But I think greed trumps all that, including logic.

                      Or maybe I'm full of crap.. I did say I don't know much about economics right? LOL
                      Last edited by Murphy; 12-11-2018, 12:37 AM.

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                      • #12
                        when people do not own information - it's funny :)
                        no, I'm not trying to offend or upset anyone, but that’s true, very few people in Western countries understand what is happening with us) The funny thing is that Western media shout about the “Russian threat” for any reason, and Russian media for any reason copy news about how Western media shout about the “Russian threat” :))).

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                        • #13
                          Always good to get alternate views. Even the thinest pancake has two sides.
                          It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war!

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