When the ammo runs out.....

[Big_Saw]

Okay...it's month six...you've done pretty good so far, using your air rifle, blowgun, fishing tackle, snares, or whatever other reusable and bulk means at your disposal to secure protein.
But, you've found your way through a few skirmishes, too...or maybe you've had to drive off more than a few looters or roving gangsters, and now your either low on ammo or out, and the only way to get more is to pillage the above mentioned thugs' stores.
Question: Have you been learning and practicing concealment, incursion, unarmed combat or knife handling?
I've been a practitioner of Tae Kwon Do and JuJitsu for most of my adult life, and find them to be enjoyable sport as well as effective combat skills. I'm pretty good with a blade, and am always trying to improve my ability to be stealthy.
Most of us have enough testi-juice to think we'd do well in a fight...especially to the death, but are you really ready? Or are you just full of yourself? I guess we'll all find out when we're tested. I'm not looking forward to my test, personally, but I think I've done or am doing what I can to prepare for the exam.
Whatever you do, if you decide to learn, put down the "dummy books", turn off the UFC and find someone who knows what they're doing to instruct you. Not someone who's just learned it, but someone who has actually had to apply their knowledge and skills.
And my final piece of advice:

Fight to win...fight dirty. After all, the other guy is trying to kill you.

[beebopcop]

Wow man, you get right to the point. I know that we try not to discuss hurting folks on this forum anymore than we have to. Too much has the possibility of drawing unwanted attention. But we all know that it may come to that. IMHO each individual has to make peace with him/herself in reference to taking the life of another and under what circumstance they would be willing to do so. This will very with everyone based on ability, age, what they are defending and what they have to defend with. I don't mean to state the obvious. You are right about fighting. Fair fighting is an oxymoron. For me, I'm an older man and could be in better shape. With that in mind, my decision to critically injure or terminate some one may be a lot different from that of a 25 year old.
As someone said earliar, my .02 worth,
bbc

[Visinedrops]

When my ammo runs out, I hope to be far enough into the forest that I don't have to encounter thieves or gangsters, however, due to my training as an armed guard, the fundamental strategy is that of deception and distraction. If you are holding a bag full of something a thief wants, it's best to toss it away from you, causing his attention to be directed to the item, instead of to you. It is then, and only then, that you should use flight or fight tactics.

Is the item worth your life? Could you be put back into jeopardy? Are you able to flee effectively? If the answers subject you to using lethal force, then so be it.

I suggest people to learn key points in human anatomy, for both lethal wounds, and those which will remain non lethal, but will incapacitate an enemy.

The most important question that one has to ask him/herself is: Am I mentally able to destroy the life of another in the defense of that which is mine?

[Diesel]

Even though I'm a trained fighter, and stronger than most, honestly the last thing I want to do is engage in anything physical with anyone. Smart fighting and defense is keeping your distance. any inury from a scrap even a small cut or abrasion could effect your ability to hunt and survive out there. So Physical altercations would and should be the ABSOLUTE last option. Learn how to fashion other types of weapons like bow and arrow, sling shot, etc. But as far as running out of ammo, that's why everyone should be expecting to rely on their .22 : ) They are mighty handy.

[Brosia]

Most of us have enough testi-juice to think we'd do well in a fight...

I'm getting my ass kicked, ain't I. :(

Absolutely I'd fight dirty. With anything and everything I could get my hands on. I'd be like a Mama Bear, you mess with my cubs and I aim to kill.

self-defense skills- a very good idea.

[Big_Saw]

*In survival and defense, killing is not murder; It's killing.
*In combat, no plan of action survives contact with the enemy.
*In a bug-out, you WILL cross paths with looters, gangs, enemy troops, etc., and you will either have to kill, die, or surrender. To think that all contact with unfriendlies is avoidable is naive.
*You cannot...YOU CANNOT ever have enough ammo/supplies...period.
*Your best weapon is not your firearm...'nuff said.

[snal]

I've been following this thread since the beginning, and thought it best not to respond, but I must simply say that I thank Big_Saw for the original post.
I've been planning for a SHTF senario for several months, but I'd been planning for "when" it happens...not taking into consideration what I may go through for several months after the fact.
Thanks bro!...for making me "think"!
There's all sorts of web "instructions" that anyone may choose to follow, but I prefer to educate myself enough to make "my" own decisions, and I love it when I find information that makes me think!
Kudos!

[cudalyon]

:eek:I can't keep up with this

[Big_Saw]

Snal...all I can offer you or anyone else is my opinion, based on experience and objective reasoning. I'm glad that you have been inspired to further thought on this matter. Even those whom I may disagree with subjectively might think a little farther than the first month, and that is my goal.

Each person must consider his or her course of action based on their own situation WTSHTF, but I hold that one thing remains constant, no matter what your world-view may be:

When TSHTF, even if you are prepared, there will be others who will not be....and there will be still others who will seek to gain either control over your possessions or your person in order to achieve their goals. These people will be willing to kill you. Chances are they will be greater in number, firepower and mobility. If you do not possess the ability to resupply yourself by means of covert, unarmed stratagems, you will be defenseless, should you come into contact with another rogue unit.

Deisel had a good point...contact with the enemy should be avoided, if possible. However, a lack of ammunition in this scenario would only mean counting the days until you are overrun by a superior force, and I believe that the skilled covert operative, perhaps with the help of others, will have the best chance of prevailing when it comes to....requisitions.

Remember also...IMHO, if you were to wander into my camp, without any means of fending for yourself, you could hardly expect me to provide for you and yours at the expense of me and mine. This may be the universal attitude at such time, and I don't expect to be welcomed into any community with a "Well, I'm out of everything and looking for a place to crash...by the way, can I have some ammo?"

When TSHTF, I'll consider it open season on all roving gangsters and looters...after all, if all the thieves and murderers are dead, there will be plenty to go around for the honest folk.

Just a thought.....

[forever_frost]

I think I can make due well enough with my skills and knowledge. Unfortunately, I was never trained to farm, to cultivate. I was trained to eliminate targets and to take what I need from them. In the worst case scenario, I will be a predator. Good or bad. I don't have the false belief that I need to go toe to toe with someone. A shot in the knee or in the chest and I keep from the possibility of getting hurt myself.

That said, I am aware that taking lives will be something that becomes necessary. However, those that can bring themselves to do so will have to face with something most don't anticipate. Living with themselves afterwards. That thins the herd quite quickly. PTSD is a bitch.

[Diesel]

ok and let's leave it at that guys, the rules state that we don't talk about hurting people here, obviosuly you all know why.

[beebopcop]

Good call man, good call.

[forever_frost]

I think I need to buy a bow and arrows. Helps when you run out of ammo. You can hunt and fish with them. Just something for me to think on.

[cudalyon]

I shoot a bow as well as guns, and at 20 yards, they are just as accurate as a handgun if not more so. I may get a bunch of feedback on that comment, but it is a fact. Most folks who shoot guns do not like to hear that a stick slinger is just as accurate, but they are.

[snal]

...and bows are QUIET! I've been actively looking for one. Sold my Jennings Buckmaster a few years ago after I gave up deer hunting. Things have changed alot in a few years! There are some really nice compact bows out there now...expensive though.