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  • #16
    If your property is remote enough and you are self sufficient enough, your in a better position to keep it. We do not own thousands of acres, but our driveway is exactly three miles long with aprox. 1,000' elevation gain. Odds are, no one is going to stumble upon our place. If it is the end or social order, we (and many others like us), would start by turning those driveways back to nature. Planting tree's and shrubs, turning the soil and getting grasses, weeds and natural plants to grow. It would not take that long before we had 3 miles of forrest between us and the closest road.

    I have mixed feelings about ammo storage. I think it will make one of the best barter items available, so keep extra for that purpose. The average man or man firefight is going to take just a few seconds to a few minutes. But, someone who is well dug-in on property they own and know, can fight for a lot longer than that. And if you have so much spare ammo that you can just keep a constant stream heading down range, many the bandit might very well move on for easier pickins, as the nomad probably does not have nearly as much ammo to waste.

    Just another set of possibilities. It could happen any of 100,000 ways, so if you can afford it, I don't think there is such a thing as to much of anything.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by avking View Post
      If your property is remote enough and you are self sufficient enough, your in a better position to keep it. We do not own thousands of acres, but our driveway is exactly three miles long with aprox. 1,000' elevation gain. Odds are, no one is going to stumble upon our place. If it is the end or social order, we (and many others like us), would start by turning those driveways back to nature. Planting tree's and shrubs, turning the soil and getting grasses, weeds and natural plants to grow. It would not take that long before we had 3 miles of forrest between us and the closest road.

      I have mixed feelings about ammo storage. I think it will make one of the best barter items available, so keep extra for that purpose. The average man or man firefight is going to take just a few seconds to a few minutes. But, someone who is well dug-in on property they own and know, can fight for a lot longer than that. And if you have so much spare ammo that you can just keep a constant stream heading down range, many the bandit might very well move on for easier pickins, as the nomad probably does not have nearly as much ammo to waste.

      Just another set of possibilities. It could happen any of 100,000 ways, so if you can afford it, I don't think there is such a thing as to much of anything.
      100% agreement.....better to invest in quantity whenever possible....even if to a fault....
      "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

      "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

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      • #18
        I had another thought on this subject. I think, not all, but the majority of roving gangs, will be poorly trained, barely organized and have little in the way of a command structre. The nature of the group dictates the leader will always have to fight to keep his position within the group. A group like that will live off stealing from the weak, and if they encounter formidable opposition, will not want to use it's limited resources to fight an ornery homesteader that does not fold in the first salvo.

        Winter in Idaho can be tough, and I know that eventually, I would be overtaken. But, after the first 24 hours of loosing men to sniper fire, sitting out in the cold and dealing with any wounded from the initial attack, the attackers would not be very comfortable. On the other had, our group is inside, warm, not hungry and has the advantage for the time being. If you can send constant fire down range for extended periods, they will have to rethink the wisdom for keeping up the attack.

        Contrary to other posts, I think a small group of defenders can hold out very well, against a larger group of attackers. Once you get above, oh 5 to 1, then I think it would be a lot tougher. Any defender can be rooted out eventually, but the attackers need to be willing to sustain heavy losses to do it. And you don't need to be in a castle to defend yourself. Even a log home offers great defense. It will stop almost all small arms and rifle fire. The risk of being burned out is fairly easy to prevent with just basic maintenance of your property. Everyone who lives on our mountain lives with the reality of forrest fires, all the time. We are used to taking precautions. There are two very poular products now, to protect log homes. One is a fireproof paint that you can take a flamethrower to and it will not burn. The other, what we user, is a foam/chemical that is applied to the side of a home when a fire is coming. I think it lasts for about three days or so. We have seen this work firsthand. It saved several homes a few years back. Delivery is normally done with a pressure washer, so something would need to be adapted to make it work under seige, but it could be done. Ideally, we would like to replace all the exterior wood with stone and be done with the fire risk, almost entirely.

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        • #19
          True enough....who knows whether their ticket will be punched before the first shot is fired?
          "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

          "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

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          • #20
            very well put
            the pack that plays together stays together

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            • #21
              Patton said (rough paraphrase here) that fixed fortifications are a monument to mans stupidity. If mountains and oceans can be defeated so can anything we build.
              Bear with me here but imagine for a moment that your BOL is beseiged by brigands. Stashed in your barn is a surplus tank. You roll out and handily deal with them. You dont even have rounds for the gun. Unless they have rpg's they are toast.
              I know thats a fanciful scenario and beyond our budgets but remember that guy a few years ago that welded plates to a dozer and flattened his town?
              CTHULHU/Dagon 2012

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              • #22
                Actually, I do remember that.....the guy was a nut, but had a legitimate gripe, and I found myself cheering for the underdog in a way.....but I digress...

                I'm a big proponent of multiple strategic fields of fire and lightning fast mobility in a "civil war" or perhaps more likely a "revolutionary war", the ability to stick-and-move decisively will be paramount....I'm drawn back sometimes to the scenario in the movie "The Patriot"....a hidden rally point system, with underground supply chains...this seems to be a plausible scenario, and it's already worked once :D
                "I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." -Thomas Jefferson

                "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." -Frederic Bastiat

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                • #23
                  Different side of the fence

                  Point 1.
                  In my situation, I own my land. I also live on my land which is secluded enough with nature's elements, adding to the protection of my property, I personally would not feel too much of a treat by someone trying to make it to my actual location.

                  Point 2.
                  I have a few neighbors in the area who live as I do. We're almost all, off the grid and somewhat prepared with food, water, seeds etc. and because we all live close enough to communicate via radios, we watch and help one another.

                  Point 3.
                  If someone were to try taking my land in a post scenario of TSHTF, the simplest words to make this short and sweet would be: "Let's Dance!"

                  Paper, computers or no paper and no computer records, The property I have bought is fully rented by me as long as I'm breathing and I'd refuse to just allow someone to take what I have personally worked for.

                  Now this is a different scenario from perhaps helping someone in their time of need too. I would be cautious of offering too much help to anyone that possibly passed by but I wouldn't just sit in the warm indoors and watch them freeze either. There would be strict negotiations prior to me actually welcoming someone inside or even on my land that I own while I'm alive.

                  Part of the real question probably should be; "With the best thought out planning, the most investments, the most food and water supplies, isn't it more likely, in the real time world we live in, that some off-the-wall lucky person or a few groups of people, who never prepared for anything in their lives, just might be the only ones who survive?"

                  We do not know what, if anything will actually happen. We can prepare for the worst and perhaps be the first ones gone.

                  Just my thoughts
                  Being unprepared is giving up!

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                  • #24
                    Once again avking puts it into perspective. Well done.

                    100% behind your comment on never having to much of anything. Especially non perishables.

                    I also very much agree that an organized group defending from a prepared position can hold off many times their own number. Our own Military has shown that time and again over the last 8 years alone. If you live at your retreat and have the time to make the right defensive preparations, nothing short of armor or arty will be able to move you out. Simple things like setting distance markers for firing, ditches and tree placements for blocking vehicles, night vision, razor wire, etc...are all force multipliers. 10 people firing together can sound like 100.

                    Plenty of ways to keep your stuff if you have the time and cash to prepare.

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                    • #25
                      ok thank's to everyone for your point's of view i can say i understand the situation better now
                      the pack that plays together stays together

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