Honestly think about it

[prkchp76]

ok it's 2014 the world is here but we are still in an economic flat spin the goverment has failed and all hell is breaking loose.You have your preps you BOUGHT your land you've got 10 gazillion round' sof ammo per weapon you also have a few people in your little camp...BIG DEAL..... bbc big saw diesel mags bear with me here...When we bought our land we had a goverment with structure,security,and trust...Now we are in a lawless nation where it take or be taken.I AM NOT SAYING OR TELLING ANY BODY TO STEAL TAKE OR PERMANTELY BORROW ANYTHING...Here is my question who and how are you going to tell some one you cant come here this is my land paper will be worthless so will computers and the such...I am truly sorry if i have offened anybody but unless its hundreds of acres i just dont see how 1 to 20 acres is gonna make a difference with out some massive fortifactions making it very obvious will take all opinions on this....PLEASE someone enlighten me:confused::confused::confused::confused::confuse d::confused::confused:

[Big_Saw]

Then it just becomes a war of attrition, at its very core....he who holds longest gets to stay in the gene pool....I think this would actually be an eqitable scenario in the long run....and I'm sure a well-set community of armed survivalists will hold out better than a roving band or bands of brigands....

When it all comes down to it, wars were never won because of superior numbers...they were won with good planning and logistics....numbers and maneuvering room help, but he who walks without a map (plan) ends up hungry and picking bear sh*t out of his boots... :D

[NRS_NoSFeRaTu]

Just to help me out as well, I have wondered about a few points along the lines of this subject as well. Let's say, hypothetically, you are on a small plot of land that's just around two to five acres; The only fortifications you have is a rusty, old, half rotten barb-wire fence around the perimeter, and a really run down chain link fence around the house. You're holed up with, say, four to six people. The only armament you have is a shotgun, an assault rifle, and two hand guns; Ammo is at about three hundred rounds for the rifle and hand guns ( together, not each ), and about fifty shotgun shells. The water is at about twelve gallons, food is enough to last about a week, maybe less. What would be the best plan of action for survival if a state of emergency should be declared on the area and crime skyrockets? The only plan of action I can think of is to try to hunt for food, of course, and try to keep the perimeter safe using sleep shifts between the group in the house. Past that, I'm confused as to what should happen in the event a band of vagrants that out number and out gun the group in the house decide they want the property?

[prkchp76]

hey a new perspective

Just to help me out as well, I have wondered about a few points along the lines of this subject as well. Let's say, hypothetically, you are on a small plot of land that's just around two to five acres; The only fortifications you have is a rusty, old, half rotten barb-wire fence around the perimeter, and a really run down chain link fence around the house. You're holed up with, say, four to six people. The only armament you have is a shotgun, an assault rifle, and two hand guns; Ammo is at about three hundred rounds for the rifle and hand guns ( together, not each ), and about fifty shotgun shells. The water is at about twelve gallons, food is enough to last about a week, maybe less. What would be the best plan of action for survival if a state of emergency should be declared on the area and crime skyrockets? The only plan of action I can think of is to try to hunt for food, of course, and try to keep the perimeter safe using sleep shifts between the group in the house. Past that, I'm confused as to what should happen in the event a band of vagrants that out number and out gun the group in the house decide they want the property?

well that is another point of view as well you are speaking about a pure sheeple incident imo i was thinking about the people who are on site's like this one my only answer is BUG OUT......Now my scenairo is this you are armed at best with an ar 15 12,000 rounds 12 gauge 5,000 9 mm 10,000 plenty of food for at least six month's a well of artesian spring water plenty of tp and the other likes and your FIVE TO TEN acres unless you have fortified the daylight out of it and have a platoon of well trained individual inside what good is the land you have the weapons great but all supplies will run out you will have to leave the property ...NOW a bugout location is great but,,,, is that temporary untill you find permanet shelter because with what big saw said now everyone will be nomadic or DIE correct

[prkchp76]

alright come on i want every bodies honest opinion on this one lets go

[hubste5]

I have these thoughts often, when I find myself in a weak moment, wondering what am I doing all this prepping for? Could I really defend my property? I mean REALLY defend it? No, probably not. I have guns, ammo, and a few hands to hold them, but how many times, for how long? My hope is that my location -remote relative to where all the sheeple are, will help in deterring intruders. I am part of a tight knit community of old mountain people that still put up food every year, have all of the necessary know-how and primitive implements to survive with very little. We call it prepping, they call it living...

There are so many variables involved in SHTF scenarios, that it is very difficult to logically organize them. The decay of LAWKI could take decades to unfold, or over night. It may be the government that comes to take our stuff... not hungry sheeple... the weapons and ammo stash we have could be laughable to what pulls up in the front yard...

Food
Water
Shelter
Medical
Trade items

I try and stay focused on the basics...

[Centurion]

Prkchop,
I will try my best to answer your question. You present a "what if" scenario were there is no clear correct right or wrong answer Just possible what should, would or could I do if I am in this situation.
The rule of thumb is that you should prepare or prep to the best of your ability. Some people have more ability then others thus they will have more preps. In a critical situation you should hunt or grow food so that you can reserve your dried and stored goods. Know one knows the amount of time you will be behind the lines so to speak but I recommend having at least a 6months stock on hand that is rotated. Why six months? It’s hard to find food in the winter.
Defending your position: Again the rule of thumb is that you should not engage the opposition if they are superior to your numbers. You should have the advantage in numbers and it should be twice theirs. However, your desire to perceiver, knowledge of the land and as Jose Whales once said, you have to be mad dog mean.
I tried to answer your questions but I hope you apply the common sense principle in that very few things cannot be replaced except family and loved ones so choose wisely and follow it through all that rides on your decision is your life.

[prkchp76]

Prkchop,
I will try my best to answer your question. You present a "what if" scenario were there is no clear correct right or wrong answer Just possible what should, would or could I do if I am in this situation.
The rule of thumb is that you should prepare or prep to the best of your ability. Some people have more ability then others thus they will have more preps. In a critical situation you should hunt or grow food so that you can reserve your dried and stored goods. Know one knows the amount of time you will be behind the lines so to speak but I recommend having at least a 6months stock on hand that is rotated. Why six months? It’s hard to find food in the winter.
Defending your position: Again the rule of thumb is that you should not engage the opposition if they are superior to your numbers. You should have the advantage in numbers and it should be twice theirs. However, your desire to perceiver, knowledge of the land and as Jose Whales once said, you have to be mad dog mean.
I tried to answer your questions but I hope you apply the common sense principle in that very few things cannot be replaced except family and loved ones so choose wisely and follow it through all that rides on your decision is your life.

that was another good legitamate answer and with that,i guess what i am trying to say is.We are a country of morals and laws once the laws are gone morals will soon follow and in all my prepping and what haveyou that i have read i constantly hear of people buying land.which is good in modern day society but,if the country goes to pot you can't take the land with you.Granted i know that it is the right thing to do but i can't grasp the legitamicy of trying to build on this property a bol.Except for natural disaster's and some man made disasters,I never want any thing bad to happen to any one of us but i can't see buying land while thaty money could go toward legitamate preps..Now that is presuming you do own you first house....JUS SAYIN

[slowz1k]

I agree with most if not all that has been said so far. There are far too many scenarios and situations to have a "right" answer. I firmly believe that the best defense in most situations is invisibility, for the first 6 months to a year. If your home looks dark and abandoned, then it doesn't present itself as a fruitful target. If you have light peeping from your windows, and a genny roaring out back, along with a full lush garden out front.... Guess who's coming for dinner. If you have a 10 foot chain link fence topped with razor wire, and armed guards at the driveway... They're still coming for dinner... They'll just be better armed.
I believe that everything depends on how society reacts and what they are reacting to. Earlier, I mentioned 6 months to a year. I believe that for the most part, (sepending on the nature of the disaster) things will have reached a consistent state by then. Whether it be nomadic bands of looters, government imposed marshal law, a severly reduced population of homesteaders, etc... I try to use the Katrina model as a guide for my preps. Everyone remembers the lawlessness that smothered New Orleans after Katrina hit. What would have happened if no help had come to that city?
No rescue efforts, no food and water delivery, No medical help. Destruction of that intensity is usually short lived. Sooner or later most of the looters and marrauders would have killed each other off, or moved out of the city to find other targets and food, while the weaker citizens slowly starved. But what about Joe Prep who lives in area that didn't get hit with the really high water. He hunkers down with his wife and kids. Lights a few candles each night, and with a shotgun nearby, cooks the food he's been storing over one of the cans of sterno he pulled from a case in the attic. The windows are covered with plywood, and the door proudly displays the city condemnation notice that Joe printed of at the office 6 months earlier. Joe may or may not make it, but he's in better shape to make through this situation unmolested than the criminals that are looking for him and his type.

I guess my point is this:
I plan to dig in and stay in the shadows, but if I have to Bug then I'll Bug.
My food and water preps are to get me and my family through the transition of the disaster. If we can just make it through the really bad part, I feel that we can make a life on the other side. What kind of society is left on the otherside, who knows? I have seeds, and ammunition, and I can build shelter if needed. I view my food and water preps as nothing more than a temporary insurance policy against hunger and thirst and a stepping stone to a new way of life.

Just my .02 and I'm usually wrong:D

Edit: PrkChp, I just re-read your original post and realized that everything that I just wrote, really has nothing to do with what you are talking about... Sorry about that

On topic... The American Indian thought the white man was crazy for thinking that he could own a peice of earth. Without government to make the laws and officers to enforce those laws, a property deed could very well mean absolutley nothing. I think I read in someones signature (Ponce maybe) If you can't carry it, you don't own it.... Those words may come to be very true in the future. I guess it may come down to... Is it worth fighting for. Ranchers in Texas do it everyday trying to protect their borders.

[prkchp76]

wow i liked both of then extremely well put from both ends i guess it is just a tochy subject but yes i agree NO MAN or WOMAN shall every own the earth

[Dracos]

There has never been a fort built that cannot be taken. But next time you are in Puerto Rico check out Fort Morro. The purpose of a fortress is to give the occupants an advantage over the attackers. My land could be taken, but the price would be so high that it would not be worth it.

[cbprice797]

Well as for owning BOL now it has some good reasons behinc it. First and foremost is the simple fact that if you own the land you are escaping to you can build upon it and change it to suit yuor needds. Try going to a farmers land a setting up a BOL this weekend, I would be willing to bet that he would not appreciate you doing this.

Now yes, most assuredly you will own this land, assuming you have made your mortagage payments, when TSHTF. After it hits it really won't matter much anymore will it? So the reason for buying the land is simply to have it avaialbe to you after TSHTF with a fully stocked get away. There is really no way to do this effectively in "normal" times unless you either own or are purchasing the land.

[prkchp76]

thanks cb best reason yet

[beebopcop]

ok it's 2014 the world is here but we are still in an economic flat spin the goverment has failed and all hell is breaking loose.You have your preps you BOUGHT your land you've got 10 gazillion round' sof ammo per weapon you also have a few people in your little camp...BIG DEAL..... bbc big saw diesel mags bear with me here...When we bought our land we had a goverment with structure,security,and trust...Now we are in a lawless nation where it take or be taken.I AM NOT SAYING OR TELLING ANY BODY TO STEAL TAKE OR PERMANTELY BORROW ANYTHING...Here is my question who and how are you going to tell some one you cant come here this is my land paper will be worthless so will computers and the such...I am truly sorry if i have offened anybody but unless its hundreds of acres i just dont see how 1 to 20 acres is gonna make a difference with out some massive fortifactions making it very obvious will take all opinions on this....PLEASE someone enlighten me:confused::confused::confused::confused::confuse d::confused::confused:

Very good post and question;

I think the biggest and best element to any plan, be it a BOL, BOB, Shelter in place, etc is the ability to trash or adapt that plan according to the situation. Whatever the SHTF situation is there will be two groups of people; the haves, and the havenots (prepared and unprepared). The vast majority will be in the latter group. I personally believe, and this of course will greatly depend on your area of the country, that the ability to move swiftly and at a moments notice will be the key to how long we survive. Being nomadic is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination.
I believe that at some point owning land is not going to mean anything for the reasons that the other posters have listed. Having said that, I would not pass up an opportunity to purchase good land. If nothing else, it may be an initial place to run to and/or store goods. However, the ability to hold that land will change as the scenario changes and this is where we must be flexible. Intelligence gathering should be at the top of your list in any of these scenarios because this is the only way that you are going to know when to get the hell out of Dodge.
My point is with your 1 or 20 acres of land and your gazillion rounds of ammo, you are right, your deed isn't worth the paper it is written on when there is a well armed organized horde that decides they want it. I say have your planned safe retreat or fallback point ready and give the land to the horde. Live to fight a better chosen battle that you can win.
bbc

[Ponce]

Is not what you have but rather what you do with what you have.....

Some people are holding so many rounds of ammo that the floor of their hiding places are about to colapsed.........a fire fight do not last longer that five minutes (at the most) and is not like if you and the other guy will be sitting on lawn chairs at 2,000 yards taking turns shooting each other.

When the fire fight is over either you have his ammo and guns or he will have yours.

Anything over 5 acres you would need an army to guard it or you would loose everything in it over night.