Wedding update: firearms

[neverknow]

Hey guys figured its time for an update as you all know got married went on a honeymoon god florida keys is place i will NEVER go again. But the whole point of this is now that we got married my gun limit has been lifted (with a few demands being met :( ) Ive been approved for a kimber 1911 and another remington 700 308 police (had to sale original due to financial problems) So im thinking im going to do it before all hell breaks loose( economy obama etc etc) what do you guys think maybe another type of gun? i already have a glock 23(ccw), remington police magnum, savage arms 22lr and 2 colt 6920s. Maybe an ak47 or no?

[Big_Saw]

Get a good main battle rifle....whatever suits you and is dependable and durable....pistols don't win firefights and they're hard to hunt with.....

[neverknow]

saw

I know what you mean. Ive always been an ar15 but when i speak to alot of my mentors, They tell me when they were in vietnam in very wet conditions the ar would jam. Im starting to thank my new battle rifle will be an ak47 just the shear fact that it as tuff as they come.

[Big_Saw]

I know alot of folks get butt-hutt when I say it, but the AR as presently designed is not a battle-ready weapon....unless one plans on having the time, place and supplies to keep it showroom clean...and god forbid you should have to actually belly crawl with this rig....there's a good chance it won't fire when you get up.....check out the box o' truth on this.....they put a handful of dirt in the breech of both an AR, an AK and a Mini, then jacked in a round......two of the three cycled and kept on firing....one wouldn't even seat the first round, and when it finally did, *click*.....had to be stripped and cleaned to produce another shot....not my idea of a dependable weapon for serious combat and heavy usage....

....they sure are pretty, though.....

[neverknow]

What be some of your suggestions? I know im getting the remington 700 in 308 but what would be a good battle rifle in your opinion. Note i have two ar15 and love them but they do have flaws and are something i would not depend on in a real shtf.

[Big_Saw]

On a budget, any quality SKS or AK platform I would recommend sticking to something in a common caliber like .223/5.56, .308, 7.69, etc....semi or bolt, whatever suits you....

Mid-range includes your Mini 14 or 30, Beretta Cx4 .40,

High end would be anything by H&K, the SR556 (a bit heavy for an AR), FS2000.....

Ultra motherf*cking bad*ss: PSG1, Springfield M1A, FN PS90.....

Shotguns are easy...pick a 12 gauge....don't buy new, but don't buy an antique either....I like Mossberg, Ithaca and Benelli....pump or semi....don't bother with breech-loaders.....they're too slow....

[waitnc]

Neverknow,
The Ak47 is worth considering in todays environment, meaning the ammo is everywhere and everyone has one or close to it. It is durable, good stopping power for defending yourself or getting some groceries on a hoof. I have a AMD 65 and it loves the cheap russian ammo, I intend to buy another AK47 type very soon. Both are guns to be forgotten sort of. The AR15's are my street guns if you will, when you move to the woods it's AK time. The AR15 stays clean and in the shelter for a gotta use it now moment. Anything that needs to be touched from afar I'll use a 7mm Mag. Just my oppinion. And of course the always useful 12 gauge shoties, I have a few in various configs as well. I haven't yet got a Saiga 12 Auto loader, anyone know of problems with this system? I have all pumps now and think the covering possibilities of the auto loader with a 10 rnd mag as impressive. Thoughts anyone?

[Bayou Blaster]

Decisions Decisions

Neverknow

I think the addition of an MBR to your current stable of firearms is great idea. They certainly have more punch/penetration and turn cover into concealment. Even though an AKS-47 utilizes an intermediate round; its operating cost (ammo) is cheaper. You already know what I think about them. With a folding stock, it makes an excellent truck gun. I also have a personal affinity towards Remington .308 bolt guns as well.

Whatever decision you make concerning your next firearm/s purchases don’t let the allure/enticement of money in hand cloud your judgment. It’s like a kid wanting that new toy. Sometimes the wanting becomes more important than the having. First and foremost do your own research. Take your time and think it through. Is it practical for your purposes? Example: Would that nice Kimber 1911 serve you better than say a Glock 21/21SF or Springfield XD 45 which utilize higher capacity magazines?

Every firearm manufactured has its limitations/drawbacks (Constructional, Mechanical, Practical and Ergonomic). Some manufacturers focus mainly on certain aspects/attributes of a firearm while almost totally ignoring other design aspects; sometimes with dire consequences to the user (Soldier/Law Enforcement/Law Abiding Public). All firearms are susceptible to failure. Some because of their design features tolerate abuse under austere/harsh environments better. Even Mikhail Kalashnikov’s AKS-47 will eventually fail.

Sand is without a doubt one of the most abrasive substances/enemies to firearms. It is primarily composed of glass (Pretty hard stuff). Firearms with tighter tolerances: M-16, AR-15, M-4 variants are more susceptible to sand failure. Even the newer piston operated variants are still susceptible. Some firearm design features contribute to failure caused by sand. H&Ks closed design and roller lock mechanisms don’t tolerate sand or dirt very well.

As far as MBRs go I suggest:

FN FAL variant
Springfield M1A (Civilian M-14)
Saiga AKS-47 variant in .308 Winchester (least expensive of the 3)

I ruled out the H&K and PTR/JLD series of firearms due to their roller lock mechanism & closed design, additionally the charging mechanism is a long stretch and heavy pull; exposing more of your chicken wing (Elbow) to the attacker. If you decide upon an MBR, I would recommend getting one in the same caliber as your bolt/hunting rifle. Reduces ammo logistics that way.

Suggest you look at this thread from another website

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486

You will have to become a member to view pics here:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/

On the subject of high capacity hand guns; I strongly believe that they have their place in a SHTF scenario. It’s always at your side and you can retrieve it faster than your long gun. It works extremely well in surprise close-in defensive engagements. It’s much easier to draw/remove from a vehicle during a surprise encounter and can be handled with one hand. As always, Good Luck with your decision.

[Big_Saw]

Neverknow

I think the addition of an MBR to your current stable of firearms is great idea. They certainly have more punch/penetration and turn cover into concealment. Even though an AKS-47 utilizes an intermediate round; its operating cost (ammo) is cheaper. You already know what I think about them. With a folding stock, it makes an excellent truck gun. I also have a personal affinity towards Remington .308 bolt guns as well.

Whatever decision you make concerning your next firearm/s purchases don’t let the allure/enticement of money in hand cloud your judgment. It’s like a kid wanting that new toy. Sometimes the wanting becomes more important than the having. First and foremost do your own research. Take your time and think it through. Is it practical for your purposes? Example: Would that nice Kimber 1911 serve you better than say a Glock 21/21SF or Springfield XD 45 which utilize higher capacity magazines?

Every firearm manufactured has its limitations/drawbacks (Constructional, Mechanical, Practical and Ergonomic). Some manufacturers focus mainly on certain aspects/attributes of a firearm while almost totally ignoring other design aspects; sometimes with dire consequences to the user (Soldier/Law Enforcement/Law Abiding Public). All firearms are susceptible to failure. Some because of their design features tolerate abuse under austere/harsh environments better. Even Mikhail Kalashnikov’s AKS-47 will eventually fail.

Sand is without a doubt one of the most abrasive substances/enemies to firearms. It is primarily composed of glass (Pretty hard stuff). Firearms with tighter tolerances: M-16, AR-15, M-4 variants are more susceptible to sand failure. Even the newer piston operated variants are still susceptible. Some firearm design features contribute to failure caused by sand. H&Ks closed design and roller lock mechanisms don’t tolerate sand or dirt very well.

As far as MBRs go I suggest:

FN FAL variant
Springfield M1A (Civilian M-14)
Saiga AKS-47 variant in .308 Winchester (least expensive of the 3)

I ruled out the H&K and PTR/JLD series of firearms due to their roller lock mechanism & closed design, additionally the charging mechanism is a long stretch and heavy pull; exposing more of your chicken wing (Elbow) to the attacker. If you decide upon an MBR, I would recommend getting one in the same caliber as your bolt/hunting rifle. Reduces ammo logistics that way.

Suggest you look at this thread from another website

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486

You will have to become a member to view pics here:

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/

On the subject of high capacity hand guns; I strongly believe that they have their place in a SHTF scenario. It’s always at your side and you can retrieve it faster than your long gun. It works extremely well in surprise close-in defensive engagements. It’s much easier to draw/remove from a vehicle during a surprise encounter and can be handled with one hand. As always, Good Luck with your decision.

The definitive word.....couldn't have said it better.....

[Bayou Blaster]

Saiga 12 Shotguns

I haven't yet got a Saiga 12 Auto loader, anyone know of problems with this system? I have all pumps now and think the covering possibilities of the auto loader with a 10 rnd mag as impressive. Thoughts anyone?

I think all Saiga firearms to date are an exceptional valve. These firearms are manufactured by Izmash the original manufacturer of the AK-47. They also absorbed the Russian firm MOLOT (Makers of the exceptional VEPR series of AKS-47 variants).

Once converted to pistol grip configuration I like this shotgun as much or more so than my other shotguns: Trenchgun, 870s etc. They have an adjustable gas system and are quite reliable once broken-in and minor bolt polishing.

[Bayou Blaster]

Generalization of Battle Rifle Term

I know what you mean. Ive always been an ar15 but when i speak to alot of my mentors, They tell me when they were in vietnam in very wet conditions the ar would jam. Im starting to thank my new battle rifle will be an ak47 just the shear fact that it as tuff as they come.

Neverknow

The term "Battle Rifle" or MBR "Main Battle Rifle" has of late sadly become a generalized term to reflect just about all military long guns. How this happened I don't know. But I'm still of the belief that MBRs are of calibers higher than .223 (5.56x 45mm) or 7.62 x 39mm. These cartridges are classified as intermediate cartridges; as such the AKS-47 would not be categorized as an MBR.

Keep in mind while I like the AKS-47 platform and it's robust reliabilty under austere environments; it is by NO means, shape, or form the tack driver an M-16/AR-15 is. You can buy quality ammo (example Corbon DPX) to help accuracy, but only to a very small degree. One must also consider a firearms limitations during the selection process and whether you can adjust/perform accordingly to those limiting factors in your AO (Area of Operation) and percieved senarios you may find yourself in.

True MBRs limiting factors include weight of firearm/ammo and the inability to carry same amount of ammo by weight as compared to an AR/AK. Again good luck with your decision.

[Dracos]

I have some rifles that are tack drivers. At 100 to 300 yards if I have 5 minutes between 3 shot groups, to clean the bore, adjust the rest and maybe do some stretching exercises, I can shoot incredible groups. If I had to engage 10 targets, inside 100 yards, in 10 seconds, my AK would be the only choice.

[Big_Saw]

I have some rifles that are tack drivers. At 100 to 300 yards if I have 5 minutes between 3 shot groups, to clean the bore, adjust the rest and maybe do some stretching exercises, I can shoot incredible groups. If I had to engage 10 targets, inside 100 yards, in 10 seconds, my AK would be the only choice.

I agree....if one is able, you should really have a semi or pump/lever action as your mbr and an accurate bolt action or orher equivalent for a stand-off weapon....there's times for sniping and there's times for mowing.....

[hardtorn]

Yep... you need a rifle.
If you have the cash get a nice AR or an AK if you want to spend less. There are others that are great... but these are very common... easy to find parts/etc. and ammo for.
I have both... I can say that the AK always works.... the AR needs more TLC at times.
Just my thoughts.

[Skyowl's Wife]

Welcome Hardtorn, haven't seen an intro thread for you!