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  • TheUnboundOne
    replied
    Rusty, I loved the ditty about Carnation Milk! It fondly reminded me of the jokes and rhymes my Grandfather taught me, which my Mother chided him for: "Don't you be teachin' him that meanness!"

    :D :D :D :D

    You are correct about soy not being a complete protein. I'm certainly no PETA freak evangelizing soy to the exclusion of meat, I just happen to like the products I've tried. And if people have allergies to anything, then prescribing that particular food as a panecea is homicidal.

    As for whether soy is as bad as Dr. Mercola says, I'll have to look into that further. I have noticed that pure vegans tend to sound very mentally imbalanced, and on the other side of the coin, Al Gore was probably at his battiest when he was on the high-protein, low-carb Atkins Diet. Anything to excess certainly is bad for you, even water if it's ingested down the wrong pipe.

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  • Rustyshakelford
    replied
    Originally posted by TheUnboundOne View Post
    Nitehawg,
    As for tofu, that doesn't come fromt the Play-Doh section of the toy store. ;)
    :)
    I would challenge that. Tofu tastes like Pay-Doh to me. Tofu is also not very healthy, and is basically used by the millitant animal rights nut jobs as a propaganda tool. Studies on Tofu say that Tofu is not a complete portein, and people who eat it exclusively or in excess risk serious side effects
    http://starbulletin.com/1999/11/19/news/story4.html

    And here

    http://www.becomehealthynow.com/article/soy/1088/

    A whole list of articles about the ill effects of soy

    http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/index.htm

    It is also believed that soy products are bad for men due to the high levels of plant estrogens. Ever notice that vegan men are somewhat fruity in behaviour?


    I happened to have been made ill from soy products at one time and ended up in the hospital. I must avoid them.
    Last edited by Rustyshakelford; 09-22-2008, 07:01 PM.

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  • TheUnboundOne
    replied
    Nitehawg,

    Tofurkey probably is pushing the limits of my palate. I imagine that's not too good.

    :D

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  • nitehawg
    replied
    Thanks TUO,

    Once we move down there we will start developing relationships with the ranchers and see what can be worked out. I'm pretty sure that the turkey and chicken ranches are "company owned", but I do know that the locals are able to purchase from them.

    Had an interesting experience with the hunting part. One of our friends down there is an avid turkey hunter and asked permission to hunt our land, seeing as how we're not there yet. We had absolutely no problem with that so we gave him permission. About a year or so later, while on the phone with one of our neighbors, they told us that they had to have a talk with our hunter because he was hunting too much. No problems all the way around. Hunter understood, and we had no problem with the neighbors looking out for us. So it seems that it is somewhat self-regulated.

    As far as tofu, I keep recalling that episode from "Everybody Love Raymond" when Marie made the tofurkey for Thanksgiving.

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  • TheUnboundOne
    replied
    Nitehawg, Some may be raising livestock exclusively for food manufacturers, but it never hurts to ask if you can purchase or if you can barter slaughtering and dressing services in exchange for a side of meat.

    As for tofu, that doesn't come fromt the Play-Doh section of the toy store. ;) To get tofu, you would have to raise soybeans, sprout the resulting beans, then grind, mash, and strain out the resulting soy milk to get tofu. (Although I'm a meat-eater through-and-through, I also like soy products too. Soy acquires the flavor of anything mixed with it. I like tofu, soy milk, and I've even tried a soft-serve frozen treat called tofutti, which is flavored just like ice cream or yogurt. Tastes great!)

    Finally, hunting. If unchecked to allow time for reproduction of the hunted species, hunting can deplete the fat of the land very quickly. The list of endangered and extinct species is proof that Mother Nature doesn't always adjust to man's liking. It will take major tinkering under the genetic hood to bring back the Wooly Mammoth, the Sabre-Toothed Tiger, the Passenger Pidgeon, or the Dodo. Not impossible, but you get the idea. Which is why I stand by farming and ranching for long-term survival. You never hear of species of cattle or chickens going extinct.

    :)

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  • nitehawg
    replied
    TUO and Rusty, you both got me. I've never heard those before.

    Back to OP now. Currently live in the big city. Through the years have grown the usual tomatos, beans, cukes, etc.. Enough for our own use and sharing with neighbors. Moving to rural area, already set with neighbors about who will grow what and sharing (is this starting to sound like a commune?). However, it's the protein part of the equation that has me wondering. There are black angus ranches in our area, along with turkey and chicken farms. I'm presuming that we will be able to buy beef, turkey, chickens direct from the source. You think I'm correct, or should I get used to tofu?
    Naturally, hunting is also big in our area. Some families hunt for survival. If they don't kill it, they don't eat. I also presume that the wildlife would be depleted rather quickly, due to the hunting pressure. Am I correct, or does Ma Nature adjust and provide?

    Leave a comment:


  • Rustyshakelford
    replied
    Originally posted by TheUnboundOne View Post
    Nitehawg,

    Sooo...are you the author of these lyrics?

    "Peaches come from a can,
    They were put there by a man,
    In a factory downtown..."

    --"Peaches", The Presidents of the United States of America

    :D ;)
    Or a lyric my dear old departed Grandfather used to say (I dont think he wrote it thought)

    Carnation milk is the best in the land
    Here I sit with a can in my hand

    No teets to pull, no hay to pitch
    You just punch a hole in the son-of-a-B****

    Leave a comment:


  • TheUnboundOne
    replied
    Nitehawg,

    Sooo...are you the author of these lyrics?

    "Peaches come from a can,
    They were put there by a man,
    In a factory downtown..."

    --"Peaches", The Presidents of the United States of America

    :D ;)

    Leave a comment:


  • nitehawg
    replied
    I would guess that the strangers who find it would be considered hunters or are they gatherers? My next question goes to the miners who dig up the powdered milk from the milk mines. Why do you add water to it, then bottle it and sell it as a liquid. Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to ship and sell it dry?

    OK that just cost me a keyboard. My wife was reading over my shoulder and spewed her Mountain Dew all over it.

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  • das
    replied
    hehe, yeah we just find it out in the field...hard part is picking it up before strangers find it.

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  • nitehawg
    replied
    Hey, I'm a city boy. If you're trying to tell me that McDonald's and Dominicks will cease to exist, I guess I'm in the starved category. Next, you'll be trying to convince me that meat doesn't come wrapped in plastic when you ranchers find it!

    Leave a comment:


  • Rustyshakelford
    replied
    Originally posted by das View Post
    Rusty's theory isn't as far fetched as we would like to believe. It is highly pretentious to imagine that civilization made an uninterrupted march from Africa to the Middle East, to the Mediterranean and outwards to Asia and Europe without some starts and stops.

    Just because it isn't in recorded history doesn't make it so. I'll trust my Bible as much as the next fellow but even that is rather vague on a number of areas.

    I am a pretty devout Lutheran, and I find nothing incompatible with the Forbidden Archeology theory. Just as I find nothing incompatible with my Liberatarian ideology and Biblical teachings. In fact, I feel that Christ was much more Libertarian then anything else.

    Not to push religion, but did not Paul tell us to be more Christlike?

    He preached against organized government, taught that charity was an individual thing, not a government thing, and told his followers to beware of the government, and the organized churches.

    He also had little positive to say about Lawyers:
    Luke 11:52
    Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

    Lest I remind you of what was described as paradise by God

    Isaiah 65:21-22
    21And they shall build houses and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards and eat the fruit of them.
    22They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for as the days of a tree are the days of My people, and Mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands

    (no taxes, no central government, and I keep the fruits of MY labor)

    He also comanded his followers to practice self defense and preparidness.

    Might I remind you of Luke 22:36
    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.


    Might I also remind you of Corintians 16:2
    Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


    I guess that is my Sermon for this week. It is something to think about, whether Christian or not, if you do not believe, you can take the verses as wise words.
    Last edited by Rustyshakelford; 09-17-2008, 03:44 PM.

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  • das
    replied
    I've ranched cattle and hunted and I can tell you hunting is MUCH more work. Disease, predators and poor fences are the biggest worries of modern ranching. Small scale SHTF ranching with a dozen or less cows and a bull would be more of an issue of security from the two footed predators is my guess. Lots of nights of security watch over the herd I'm sure.

    Enough grazing fields plus enough hay for winter would also be a problem of security that would be difficult to hide though you could hobble the cattle after you moved them like a sheepherder. Even then the shear volume of hay needed for anything but the most temperate of winters would require some horses to pull a trailer or if you were lucky train them for cutting and tilling.

    Though I have CERTAINLY never done this my grandfather still had his horse drawn scythe and pull tiller rusting out in the fields when he was alive. Many sources claim donkey's and asses were better for this but he claimed they were just to hard to train and mean as they are wicked smart but not overly inclined to hard work.

    Honestly sheep, pigs and goats or some free ranging chickens (nightly coop from predators) would be MUCH easier to pull off without giving away your location. Though disease would be a problem as smaller animals have less resistance in my limited observation.

    A hunter could avoid the onerous job of having to defend against humans for a long time if he was stealthy. Raising a family would make hunting more difficult as you would need to move with the wildlife like the trappers used to do.

    The hunter would also have the luxury of avoiding the sewer/trash issues that becomes a problem. I have lived in a house with a french drain sewer and know the semi-annual cleaning joy they require. A modern fermentation/leeching field sewer is an amazing invention but again not maintenance free! Most ranches/farms burn their trash but you would need to seriously consider burying it during a real breakdown to minimize your security issues.

    Ultimately, depending on the scenario, ranching and farming are fairly dependent on a modicum of civilization by armed protection. Hunters would eat less reliably but probably have a higher survival probability in a societal collapse situation.

    All bets are off though if you are talking hunting with firearms as you can hear a high powered rifle for miles in the plains. Carrying everything you need to butcher and cure a large deer or similar almost necessitates a small group though. Then you are back to the same security issues as before!

    Always comes back to a group/community it seems. Enough trained guns could protect a ranch but it would be tenuous existence until some stability was restored.

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  • das
    replied
    Rusty's theory isn't as far fetched as we would like to believe. It is highly pretentious to imagine that civilization made an uninterrupted march from Africa to the Middle East, to the Mediterranean and outwards to Asia and Europe without some starts and stops.

    Just because it isn't in recorded history doesn't make it so. I'll trust my Bible as much as the next fellow but even that is rather vague on a number of areas.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rustyshakelford
    replied
    Not too many believe in the

    Forbidden theory of archeology. No worries. Under the traditional theory, probably the first animal to be domesticated was some sort of canine or canid. More then likely either a wolf or wild dog. Probably the first food animal was some sort of bird, and then more then likely an early form of sheep or goat.

    Dogs are a very unique animal, in that they are the most easily genetically manipulated mammal. The have been bred to be in a symbiotic relationship with humans. If a problem (getting a piece of meat from a hole that cannot be reached) the wild canids such as a wolf or coyote, just give up. A domesticated dog will actually try, then come to a nearby human for help. I need not mention how we have used dogs throughout history. Hunting, protection and sport.

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