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**Nik** · 07-31-2021, 10:47 PM

UK, almost all people currently being hospitalised due Covid were un-vaccinated. Likewise the deaths...

UK data indicates a prior Covid infection, hopefully 'mild', only gives a 'narrow' immunity to subsequent variants, especially the rampant 'Delta'.

Any 'Western' vaccine boot-straps that to fair immunity, plus significantly reduces virus shedding if you do catch it, plus seriously reduces your chances of becoming seriously ill, and reduces mortality if hospitalised by factor of a dozen.
What's not to like ??

Downside, I've lost track of which Russian & Chinese vaccines are considered safe and efficacious.

There may be a third vaccine available as booster around time of 'seasonal flu' jab. Given the way 'Covid Delta' is much more infective than prior variants and looks set to out-flank the Rus/Chi vaccines, I strongly urge uptake of booster...

**Tugaloo** · 07-31-2021, 11:09 PM

So far, we haven't seen much of it here. The local newspaper said cases have doubled; here, that means in the low teens. The nearest town is under 9K; so, things are slower here.
I'm a Vietnam Vet and I'm Agent Orange positive.

You did NOT do anything wrong. Just continue to do the right thing. You can't get others to do the right thing; however, you can do the right thing for yourself.
With all the rumors floating around about the vaccines, I understand people's fears of it as every vaccine had its rumors.
All you or anyone can do is suggest others do the right thing. However, it is their choice.

We both tested positive; nothing serious. After we tested negative, we were vaccinated. I've read that being positive; then getting vaccinated raises the effectiveness of the vaccine. As the science kept changing; how it can beats me.

Food was available here at the local grocery store; however, it is pricey. Unfortunately, we shop at Costco or Sam's; due to panic buying supplies there were limited.
Here, we can buy meat from a local supplier and the vegetables we don't grow, we buy at the local farmer's market.

**Nik** · 08-01-2021, 02:03 PM

Not the science changing, as the ruddy virus mutating, such that variations / traits that spread fastest as out-wit or over-run our immune system are very strongly selected...

As I understand it, the immunity you get from a Covid infection is 'narrower', more specific, than from the 'Western' vaccines, which were brewed to be more 'generic'. Against such expected mutations...

But, the Covid variants are worse than hoped, with the 'Delta' more different and much nastier than extrapolated. And its spin-offs are likely to be even more infectious.

So, if offered a 'booster' this Autumn, please get it, along with your 'seasonal flu' and decadal pneumonia...

**Tugaloo** · 08-01-2021, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Nik View Post

Not the science changing, as the ruddy virus mutating, such that variations / traits that spread fastest as out-wit or over-run our immune system are very strongly selected...

As I understand it, the immunity you get from a Covid infection is 'narrower', more specific, than from the 'Western' vaccines, which were brewed to be more 'generic'. Against such expected mutations...

But, the Covid variants are worse than hoped, with the 'Delta' more different and much nastier than extrapolated. And its spin-offs are likely to be even more infectious.

So, if offered a 'booster' this Autumn, please get it, along with your 'seasonal flu' and decadal pneumonia...

All viruses mutate as a result each year, they make a best guess as to which strain to tailor the vaccine.. They have been wrong a at least twice times in the past decade.. It wasn't a fun experience.

I've been vaccinated for pneumonia, the two shot. In June this year, the FDA approved Prevnar 20 that protects against 23 types of pneumococcal bacteria. I have an appointment this month.
Here decadal pneumonia is the average anomaly a 10-yr moving average; so I'm not sure I understand your reference.

COVID is a weaponized bug; as a result it mutates faster than the norm that explains the nastier and even more infectious.

Perhaps, the science isn't changing; however, what is reported varies too often. It was science who stated if you had the virus and were vaccinated; immunity increased; I read it and repeated it. What is interesting is who funded the labs in Wuhan.

Currently, Pfizer is offering a booster for their 93% COVID and 88% D current vaccine; no word from Moderna.

**RICHFL** · 08-01-2021, 05:29 PM

Well it has started again. Yesterday the local city decided that public employees will wear masks. That includes schools. The governor has signed a statement that parents are to decide if and when their kids will mask.

Went to local Wal Mart busy is not the word. Seems the larger Wal Mart was closed "for cleaning". A lot of items were gone including cleaning supplies, laundry, toilet paper, canned meat, etc. Gas prices have gone down to $2.81 with little traffic. So there we are.

POD casts from peppers are talking about three things. Climate, economic, and covid shtf, and the things you need asap. Well they talked about shortages in stores (right), topics (right), and what is missing (right). They are right on the money. Need to watch and need their advice.

**Tugaloo** · 08-01-2021, 06:00 PM

Nothing similar going on here, I'm glad I live in a small town.

**Nik** · 08-03-2021, 07:43 AM

IIRC, there was a very, very good reason for siting a virology research lab in Wuhan: Area is a historical viral hot-spot with lots and lots of types pin-balling around local agricultural communities. Farm and wild animal flu etc variants, bird flu etc variants, bat types by the dozen...

All of them just a few mutations from scary-zoonotic. Many of them fewer mutations away from having to quickly cull the relevant herds or flocks to prevent spread, inflicting economic disaster on that sector...

Down-side is such monitoring and 'gain of function' research gotta be so careful and so honest. Unfortunately, this is 'Top Down' China, where 'Face' must be maintained, 'GroupThink' is prevalent, and 'Shoot the Messenger' a national sport...

Having announced that Wuhan lab was innocent, flawless, the Chinese authorities dared not permit any doubt, especially if generated by an international investigation. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, negatives are very hard to prove, and generic 'blanket' denials spawn snarky grumbles of 'They would say that, wouldn't they...'

Such approach is utterly opposite to the 'Schools of Tropical Medicine' in several UK port-cities. Those began by handling the weird & wonderful ailments coming in by ship, learned to be very careful, and earned a lot of respect from local & national authorities who literally trusted them with their lives...

**Tugaloo** · 08-03-2021, 10:24 AM

Often, one must learn to take responsibility; obviously, the Chinese failed miserably.

One of the problems in the US, the CDC stated unvaccinated people should not enter the US; OTOH, our borders are wide open again.

Here the total deaths reported are not accurate.

The first doctor I read was a PCP (Primary Care Provider) in Kalispell, Montana . She stated the US COVID death count was inaccurate because if someone tested positive and was killed in an accident; the cause of death was COVID.
I foolishly disregarded it until Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Department of Public Health said the same thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpHugKNcoI

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Using the information from the above link and if it is accurate.
The population of the US is 333,109,023 and the number of deaths was 629,868. 333,109,023 divided by 629,868 rounded off equals .002 converted to a percentage yields .1891%.
Considering Dr. Ngozi Ezike's words in the YouTube link, the .1891% is inaccurate or in the US we are clueless as to the true death count of COVID.
Other nations may or may not be using the same if a person dies of any cause and tests positive for COVID; the cause of death was COVID.

I'm not making light of this terrible disease; however, we all deserve the truth.

Yes, I'm an engineer; however, so is my wife.

**RICHFL** · 08-03-2021, 03:25 PM

Future generations will know the truth. Was it China's fault? Was it an accident? Or was it mother nature acting up again?

Today it does not matter. What does matter is having factual information about the virus and the vaccine. In another forum some one stated the CEO of the Modearn vaccine stated "... all who took this virus will die within two years because their DNA was changed... " That is the most BS statement I have ever heard. Yet people are ready to believe it!

**Tugaloo** · 08-03-2021, 07:03 PM

RichFL,
After over a year of being bombarded by our news media, I did the math.

One of the better ones I heard was in the vaccine is a chip so they can track you.. Judging the diameter of the needle that was the smallest chip ever. More bull malarkey.

There is so much news, rumors and outright baloney, it isn't possible to sort out one from the other. Lots of denials by China. As Nik said "Unfortunately, this is 'Top Down' China, where 'Face' must be maintained," So it could be about saving face or a fear of being sued.
The same happened in the US with the first polio vaccine when Cutter Laboratories shipped a live virus. No, I'm not kidding: https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...n-coronavirus/

Our NIH put restrictions on EcoHealth Alliance's funding.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02473-4

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8223779/Coronavirus-originated-bungled-experiments-Wuhan-lab-bombshell-report-claims.html

Basically, we are at what and who to believe... If I was a betting man; I'd bet we will never hear the truth. .

**Nik** · 08-04-2021, 07:42 AM

Face-palm time:

A lot of UK people who happily masked against street-level facial recognition, then refused to mask last year due its 'flagrant infringement of their civil liberties', are now masking against us vaccinated 'sheeple' shedding mind-bending RNA/DNA...

Yeah, right...

The Wuhan research: With data trail thoroughly obfuscated, with all evidence erased / shredded / incinerated, Chinese authorities have 'nailed their flag' to 'Plausibly Deniable'...

But they've done it in such a clumsy way that they've totally scrambled any evidence of their innocence. And given prior record....

As you say, we may never hear the truth...

**Tugaloo** · 08-04-2021, 10:43 AM

Others wear a bandana or some other excuse for a mask.
Dr. Fauci said one mask is good and 2 would be better. I'm a journeyman at a horse ministry or I walk one one side of the horse to prevent a disabled person from falling. I tried wearing two masks. The temperature was 95°F or 35°C and I was quickly winded doing something I do easily in the same conditions. Behind the 2 masks, CO2 levels increase and less O2 isn't good.

We don't watch TV news as it is more entertainment than news. I read quite a few UK magazines, mostly history.

I agree. Today, we have fact, fiction, or a WAG (wild a$$ guess), who knows. OTOH, if one disagrees the answers may change tomorrow. In the mountains, there is a saying if you don't like the weather; hang around for an hour and it will change..

**RICHFL** · 08-10-2021, 01:53 PM

Here we go again in Florida and other states the governor signed an order making it the PARENTS responsibility wether a mask will be used in school. Common sense right? But several school boards have decided they have the right to order masks used.

Here in Florida, because of state law, the governor can and will take away the school board members pay checks for refuse to follow an state order!!! This is happening in Georgia,Texas, etc.

**Tugaloo** · 08-10-2021, 07:36 PM

Rich,

Page gone - MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/children-should-not-be-forced-to-wear-masks-due-to-co2-levels-new-study-suggests/ar-AALFKTk

Germany, Austria and Poland:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743

The article was retracted:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2782288

3 foreign nations published their results. These two professionals here, Dimitri Christakis, MD, MPH; Phil B. Fontanarosa, MD, MBA disagreed and JAMA retracted the article.

To add more joy to COVD-E, ships carrying food and other merchandise are sitting offshore as the longshoremen won't unload them. It appears we will have food and merchandise shortages..
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