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  • Beyond a thousand days...

    I'm a rare poster here, so will tread respectful...

    I found this site while researching background for a 'Sci-Fi' story, 'P for Pleistocene', soon to appear on Kindle, where a stand-in Camp Leader and six D-Team teens find themselves impossibly stranded, have to make do.

    I duly collected and studied a lot of material on forest craft, 'primitive' skills etc etc. There's plenty of advice on SHTF bug-outs, lots of books on wilderness medicine and field skills. I'm seriously impressed, humbled by the depth of skills and forethought.

    One prepper's take, though, made my hair stand on end.

    He'd gone through all the usual SHTF stuff, competently ticked enough of the boxes, got through a year or two then reached the 'engage with other survivors / local community' stage.

    Quite simply, he abandoned all volition to the local pastor or communal leader, signed up as a minion.

    Perhaps I'm being cynical, but what are the chances a charismatic local figure at such a time will NOT go all 'Old Testament' / Fundamentalist, thump his Bible, burn the school books and trash 'unnecessary' tech? Evolution is a sensitive issue, but 'tis a small cognitive step from that to disposal of so much else, ranging from Astronomy to Zoology...

    Just making sense of local Geology for mineral gleaning etc brings you via Plate Tectonics and ice ages to too-much thought provoking stuff about the age of the Earth.
    Don't get me started on Noachian floods...


    In 'PfP', Mike is patiently Wiki-Stubbing a lot of stuff the grand-kids will need. That includes hard-copy before his laptop and its solar panel die. They'll need ink on bark, or baked clay tablets...

    So, what references do you prep against 'The Fall of Night' ? To ensure your grand-kids are not ignorant of the greater world during a possible 'Dark Age' ?





  • #2
    I'm pretty sure that in any long duration SHTF event, there will be plenty of "religious leaders" taking advantage of uneducated and/or religious people. Even in normal society and good times, when people are desperate, there's always a religious leader looking to "help them"..

    My opinion is that in such an event, if a religious leader becomes a quasi-dictator, those with the resources to take them out should step up. That's what sniper rifles are for and everyone should own and qualify on a weapon capable of engaging a target at 600 yards or greater.

    That said, I think that most people in the USA, while they claim to be religious (usually Christian), they don't really believe in all that stuff.

    Comment


    • #3
      Good and evil abide in the hearts of all. Inside each of us are two wolves, one good and one evil. The one that grows the strongest is the one you feed the most. Please don't confuse a religion with the actions of men or just one man. History is full of men that proclaimed that they were doing good, saving their country, saving the world all while committing atrocities. A few that come to mind from recent history are Adolph Hitler, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot and Jim Jones.

      I agree with Murphy on this point. Anyone that becomes or tries to become a dictator, deserves to die. One thing to remember on assonating anyone, is that people rise to power on the shoulders of others and they will gladly take control at the death of their leader. If you oppose a dictator you must be prepared to oppose his whole organization.


      Dale
      Judge no one, until you have walked in the same mud and spilt the same blood. Him, I call brother.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dalewick View Post
        I agree with Murphy on this point. Anyone that becomes or tries to become a dictator, deserves to die. One thing to remember on assassinating anyone, is that people rise to power on the shoulders of others and they will gladly take control at the death of their leader. If you oppose a dictator you must be prepared to oppose his whole organization. Dale
        the world hates a vacuum... look at what happened in Iraq and Libia after the dictators were removed. all kinds of people waiting in line to step up and prove their pee pee was bigger than the next guy...

        Nik, on your question about educating so youngsters or the next generations aren't ignorant. One must stock up on things like older text books to be able to cover the 3 "R's", civics/ history and an outdated (relative to the internet and Google) set of encyclopedia's will be a wealth of info should there no longer be a grid or internet. Also some of the classic books like King James Bible and other religious texts, Shakespeare, Twain, Hemingway, field guides on plant, insect and wildlife ID, foraging, etc call it woodsman skills. Books on basic skills like carpentry, be it old school log cabin or post and beam. Also some books pamplets that include the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and some of the writings from the time those documents were being birthed, say the Federalist Papers and similar.

        As far as paper, pens and pencils there is no reason not to have some laid back as they're dirt cheap. also paper wouldn't disappear for a long time or pencils. Heck go into about any office, even today in the age of the "paperless" office and you'll find a truck load of paper. Yep, might have print on one side so flip it over and use the white side.

        I'm not a heavily practicing Christian but I do believe in a higher power/ purpose and I guess I'd say I have my own view of God. I don't believe the Bible as the word of God to be followed to the letter. To me I see it as an important book and it has crucial life values and guidance but I also know it is a heavily edited book of stories told by men, written by men, edited by men, controlled by men. What has been included in the book we now have today has been molested by man for going on 2 millennia. It is a manifestation of what story those in power wanted to convey at the time and what they didn't want out has been left out, hidden and or destroyed. Those in power controlled, edited and redacted the contents to further their causes and agendas. With that said I strongly believe most of the truly great religions of the world, be it Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Catholicism, etc... share common values and morals. basically the 10 commandments most of us are familiar with. Most have a sense of do good and be kind. Other religions, not so much. Those are based purely on hate, control and domination. And then we also have those based on the world and natural environment around us. For many religion is a comfort and a rock for them and who am I to fault their beliefs so long as they do not infringe their thoughts views and practices on me and my freedoms. So say they don't believe in drinking or maybe drinking on Sunday. Well that'd their view and belief so then why is it oppressed onto me? Why is my right to do so trampled on in places where blue laws still exist or in places declared "dry". Freedom And there are others who will throw their faith and hope into "false prophets" if we want to use that term. But it doesn't just apply to people like the guy you mentioned, how many people blindly throw their faith not into the local snake oil preacher but into the belief the govt will be there, Uncle Sugar will be their savior and salvation. same mental condition in those cases.

        Now, as Dale and Murphy said, should someone like a David Karesh, Warren Jeffs or the 1000's of others out there come along to bastardize the meaning and purpose of any religion for their own benefit thru its manipulation and control of people, well as said, those people need neutralized sooner than later.
        Last edited by CountryGuy; 06-18-2018, 11:34 PM.
        I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you!

        Comment


        • #5
          Gets complicated.
          IMHO, you need a library 'to hand', some duplicates to lend to trusted neighbours, some to replace future 'wear & tear'. Then there's a SHTF cache against a future 'local authority' sequestrating your 'known' library 'for the common good', leaving it vulnerable to faction fights or a deranged / fundamentalist / demagogue's bonfire.

          D'uh, fundamentalists, you can usually spot a mile off. There's more danger from some previously normal Young Adult having a psychotic breakdown and hearing voices telling them to trash the place...

          That's four lots of multiple cubic feet of acid-free, weather-proof, forest-fire & flood secured storage.

          Given the probable threat vectors, having a 'King James' bible fronting each set is logical.

          Technical books, of course. A good illustrated 'young' dictionary as a reading bootstrap, backed by a bigger 'concise' dictionary should provide a fair lexicon. An eclectic collection of classic hard-backs to give some breadth. Stocking *one* multi-volume encyclopaedia is hard, concealing several is non-trivial...

          Thoughts ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't forget the oral tradition for some of your basic teachings. Reminds both the listener and speaker of things like your personal family/group history, your rules (like the 10 commandants) the Preamble to the Constitution and if you are so inclined some important verses from the Bible like the Lord's Prayer. What ever you consider important. These are suggestions to give you an idea of what you might wish to include. Perhaps family history one night, rules the next, Constitution next night then Bible verses and so on. Repeat, Repeat. Repeat.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nik View Post
              I'm a rare poster here, so will tread respectful...

              I found this site while researching background for a 'Sci-Fi' story, 'P for Pleistocene', soon to appear on Kindle, where a stand-in Camp Leader and six D-Team teens find themselves impossibly stranded, have to make do.

              I duly collected and studied a lot of material on forest craft, 'primitive' skills etc etc. There's plenty of advice on SHTF bug-outs, lots of books on wilderness medicine and field skills. I'm seriously impressed, humbled by the depth of skills and forethought.

              One prepper's take, though, made my hair stand on end.

              He'd gone through all the usual SHTF stuff, competently ticked enough of the boxes, got through a year or two then reached the 'engage with other survivors / local community' stage.

              Quite simply, he abandoned all volition to the local pastor or communal leader, signed up as a minion.

              Perhaps I'm being cynical, but what are the chances a charismatic local figure at such a time will NOT go all 'Old Testament' / Fundamentalist, thump his Bible, burn the school books and trash 'unnecessary' tech? Evolution is a sensitive issue, but 'tis a small cognitive step from that to disposal of so much else, ranging from Astronomy to Zoology...

              Just making sense of local Geology for mineral gleaning etc brings you via Plate Tectonics and ice ages to too-much thought provoking stuff about the age of the Earth.
              Don't get me started on Noachian floods...


              In 'PfP', Mike is patiently Wiki-Stubbing a lot of stuff the grand-kids will need. That includes hard-copy before his laptop and its solar panel die. They'll need ink on bark, or baked clay tablets...

              So, what references do you prep against 'The Fall of Night' ? To ensure your grand-kids are not ignorant of the greater world during a possible 'Dark Age' ?
              While some may teach religion to their children, I think I'd rather put the effort into teaching my child about how the world works. Science, math, languages, cultures, psychology, writing, etc. Chemistry, physics, etc.. will do more to help your child than any amount religious teaching. The more facts they learn and the more comprehension they have, the better off they'll be in all things.

              I'm not sure how worried I'd be though, libraries are everywhere and its not like books are just going to vaporize after SHTF. But, it doesn't hurt to store some videos. A single 1 gig hard drive can store thousands of hours of video and more books than you can read in a lifetime.




              Comment


              • #8
                Woops. double entry
                Last edited by ZAGran; 06-29-2018, 10:25 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am surrounded by books, which the wife and I have collected over 20 years, mine are mostly non fiction and prepper/survival factual books, they are my reference library.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Prepper Nurse just posted a video on You Tube, and one of the things she stressed would be important is written medical journals, and references; books etc. Even the medical community has gone to technology. When computers go down they are at a loss on how to do things. All of the info you have saved on a computer will be pretty useless if there is no power or any way to access it.
                    The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

                    Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes the reason is you are stupid, and make bad decisions.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      and with a book I can just turn a page to access what I want, any info on a computer is lost if there is no power or somewhere to plug it in.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I keep a Panasonic Toughbook CF31 in a Faraday Cage. It is loaded with all my SHTF library which is also stored on USB drives and DVD's. Along with the laptop, I also have a smartphone in the Faraday cage that can also read files from a USB drive.

                        I agree that print is more reliable... the problem is that I don't have enough physical space to store that many books, and I have probably 10,000 of them..

                        We did do one thing that I don't think anyone else in the entire prepper community has done... at least I've never heard of anyone doing it.

                        We made a list of almost 100 doctors in our area within 20 to 50 miles.. by scanning individual doctors offices, hospitals, etc, we then used publicly available tax records to track down their homes. We stored their names, addresses, type of doctor, and maps to their physical home. In many cases, we were able to download a photo of them, get their wives names, and various other types of information harvested from social media.

                        We have lists of cardiologists, ear-nose-throat, neurologists, general practice, veterinarians, dentists, and a variety of other specialties.

                        We've also done the same for the sex offender list, but those are just for our local area and immediate surroundings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          in the good times in Britain we can usually only be treated by the family doctor and dentist we are registered with.
                          A&E/ER is open to all but the nearest is 30 miles away, any major injuries and people from this area are airlifted by the air ambulance.if not an emergency then we go to the family doctor for treatment.
                          i'm not sure how useful your list would be in my situation post SHTF as we don't really know how many on the list would have survived and 20-50 miles would be out of the question if no fuel or no working vehicles(emp say).
                          Last edited by grumpygremlin; 06-30-2018, 11:36 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by grumpygremlin View Post
                            in the good times in Britain we can usually only be treated by the family doctor and dentist we are registered with.
                            A&E/ER is open to all but the nearest is 30 miles away, any major injuries and people from this area are airlifted by the air ambulance.if not an emergency then we go to the family doctor for treatment.
                            i'm not sure how useful your list would be in my situation post SHTF as we don't really know how many on the list would have survived and 20-50 miles would be out of the question if no fuel or no working vehicles(emp say).
                            I think you're in a very different environment than I. I'm out in a rural area surrounded by cornfields and cows.. average property sizes between 5 and 40 acres and very few cookie-cutter subdivision lots.. although we do have some.

                            I have both a motorcycle and a diesel farm tractor and I store about 300 gallons of diesel fuel.. The tractor is capable of about 26 mph so it would make a viable transportation vehicle if I needed.

                            As for survival rates, I wouldn't wait for it to get bad.. If an EMP struck, the first week is key to survival.. If you have all your ducks in a row within the first week, you should be good to go.. I wouldn't wait until someone was injured to hunt down one of those doctors, I'd start with the closest first, and immediately after SHTF, and offer them protection, food, and a place to live with us.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              i'm on the very edge of a small market town out in the middle of the English countryside, very low population numbers, fields of cows and sheep about a 30 second walk from my front door.
                              I am several hundreds of miles from any big city.
                              I cant wait for it to get bad but for a different reason than you, I cant abide other people, the sooner they start dropping the better.

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