Who are you letting in?

[bug_out]

****************

[Aftermath]

I have thought of this many times... the bottom line is I have to love you.

I think that's it, familly & love.

The ONLY other otpions are those with skills I need, you have to be able to contribute something we can not do on our own. i.e skilled farmer, skilled mechanic.. electrician etc etc

But no matter what it would still be limited by #'s, but always remember there is safety in numbers

3 bad guys will take on 5-7 people... but unlikely they will take on 15-20 people

[Muckraker69]

I think it depends on the situation to a degree. Even if you have a group of 20 armed friends and the food to maintain them, there will naturally be larger unprepared groups with arms that will still challenge you for what you have.
If you have a farm with renewable food stores, it will certainly be over run and you can't defend it forever or without casualties.

In the cold war, there were those with underground bunkers and 90 days or more of rations. You wouldn't have to answer that question because you simply would not open the door. No communication makes it easy, even better if you can't hear them out there wanting in.

Then I remember an episode I think of Twilight Zone where there were some that had a shelter. The community was under attack. Friends clamored outside the shelter wanting in. They berated the guy with the shelter challenging his beliefs and eventually it was decided he would let a small number in he felt he could sustain without putting his family at risk. There was a vote or something to decide who would "survive" in the shelter. Yet, there was still violence once the door was opened and friends killed friends.
Turned out the supposed attack was a hoax.

Makes you think. Some will have a fortress shelter. I think more will plan to take over another's fortress shelter. Will a friend use subterfuge to gain access and then kill his friend that let him in?

Even if the emergency occurs and you can easily survive in your own home on your own food stores, others will become aware that you are there and must be well supplied. They will come after what you have.

So what is the best plan? Do you have an impenetrable shelter or do you have a "bug out" plan to get to a supposed safer place? How can one predict the future and what course of action will be best?

And even if you do have a course of action that succeeds... how long will that work? Is it just putting off the inevitable?

[Muckraker69]

Good questions. The easy answer to the roving hoards of zombies looking to take over your shelter is to get up in the mountains where they could be seen well before they see you. Also, live somewhere not in the way. Places where people would have to be purposely going to get to you. That answers a lot of those concerns.

Well, that is pretty obvious. But those are not easy or practical choices for most people that need to make a living. But such a location would be my target "bug out" position if possible. There are all kinds of places to hide away in the surrounding mountains in Arizona. But you have to be able to get there.

Our local group has discussed this in detail over the years. Let's say your area is subjected to a devastating EMP. Almost all electronic devises, appliances, communications and transportation would be out of commission. So if you were successful in preparing the needed parts to replace in order to get your truck started, you might be able to load up the family and "get out of Dodge". But, any law enforcement officers or other armed folk would believe their need for my working vehicle would be the greater need. So then it becomes an issue of selecting a route out of the urban area that will likely minimize such confrontations. Ofcourse, there will be the need to shoot anyone that attempts to stop you regardless of who they are. (Remember the scene with Tom Cruise in War of the Worlds where their car is taken over by the panicked mob)

And assuming you survive the urban gauntlet, you may very well get far enough to make it to a safer destination. You may not know what if any, destination is safer than where you just came from. And you still need to haul food and water or pre-store things at the destination to make a go of it.

I don't see storing food, water, etc. underground somewhere in the mountains as being very realistic. You would have to maintain it on a regular basis, so it would be inconvenient and costly for something that may never happen. Hard to justify in my mind.

Here in Phoenix I have 4 friends that have purposely bought homes in what they consider to be the "blast shadow" should a nuclear device explode in central Phoenix. I am not that fortunate. I bought for pragmatic (pre 9/11) reasons before getting more educated on such matters. (My home was purchased with the idea it would be more likely ocean front property when the big one hits and California slides into the ocean.:p)

I am probably toast in the above scenario, but I think it is a very real likely threat that we will be faced with a failure of infrastructure to food and water services and the panic and problems that will entail. So it is my goal to become more prepared for that eventuality. The basic plan is to build up a supply of food stores, and have a plan to meet with other family in other states. Communication is the problem. Have to assume there won't be any. Seems like ham radio may be the only reliable form of long distance communication. When I was a kid, there were a lot of people I knew that were "Hams". I know no one now. I know my Satellite phone will probable not work, or will be commandeered for government use only, so I might have to get into Ham Radio somehow. Any other suggestions?

[Diesel]

wow aweseom convo, let's keep it going.. when i'm coherent and can collect my thoughts i will def be jumping in on this, right now though I need to get some sleep. This topic is very important though

[kaya_kismet]

Whew...well, the husband and I have thought this through quite extensively. My brother (currently age 13), has been given supplies and gear by me, along with the necessary training. He knows and believes my theories of impending SHTF, and we have devised multiple plans based on our respective locations at the time, so he can reach us. I will continue to attempt to convince my mom to come to the homestead. She will most likely perish in the inevitable collapse, and though I hope dearly that would not happen, it is something I try to come to terms with. My closest friends will be welcome, if they can make it in time, but they know work is required of them. I hope to have a functional garden by then, and will take in folks assuming provisions are available and they have skills to offer. My husband has no one close that is not already involved in our lifestyle. We will continue to drill. No mercy for zombies. None. My husband will not allow it, and I don't wish to. Everyone I know with skills is already in my circle, so we'll see what our place looks like by 2012.

:-)

[Diesel]

2012 is a little optimisitic isn't it? LOL :P

[das]

I wonder if the question should be reexamined. If all we are only prepared for TEOTWAWKI scenario's we are setting ourselves up to fail. The real key will be establishing a community NOW and in the handful of days/months/years as the economy and government slide into discord. Reaching out and building such a group can significantly ameliorate the challenges we would face as individuals.

I am trying with my church but have mainly only tapped into that all to common whine/complain/cynic/relativism reaction from people. That is why I am reaching out to groups like this to see what is working and how to make these goals stick with others. Yes, my wife is included in that group in case you are wondering, lol.

[Diesel]

That community is and can be Xcolony, that was part of the eventual goal of building this site and community.

[das]

Community thrumps Rambo

These people are referred to as sheep. Or zombie food if it pleases you.

Yes, I can see why people say that. I am certainly not a sheep-dog so I am not closing any doors till I have to do so. I still believe that BEST way to protect one's family is to have a strong, organized and committed community ready and able to back you. The days of the lone wolf escaping out into the mountains and living off the land are gone.

There are just to many people, to many mouths and unfortunately to many people willing or eager to take what they want by force. Even if you assume there will be a huge die-off you can't ignore the disease that will follow. Honestly if there is a huge die-off the likelihood that it we will be in the lucky few is low unless it is something that can be avoided by simply AVOIDING public contact.

How even preppers are going to avoid going to work, the bank, opening mail is unclear to me. Sure you might avoid the grocery store but totally isolating yourself from humanity is not going to be easy....assuming you even know when to start.

[Rustyshakelford]

A humourous story

When I was growing up in a place where there were a lot of Mormons, I remember my father having a talk with an LDS neighbor of ours who was always trying to convert him. He was a devout athiest. (I am not, so please don't attack me). The guy was talking about the 7 years supply of food in his basement and how we should prepare for the coming days of woe. My father said he had a good rifle and 500 rounds of ammo so he was prepared. The Mormon said that there would not be any game to shoot, so a rifle would be useless so he did not have one around.

My father said "Let me get this right, you have no firearms, 7 years of food, and I have a rifle and 3 months worth of food. I guarantee that after 3 months, I eat better then you".

The Mormon quit trying to convert my father.

[Oddball]

I'll be 'eaten by the zombies' post haste if someone doesn't see fit to let me come along if things get bad. The only family I have is a son who doesn't live in my city. I have the basics to sustain myself in a situation like what Houston is going through if I had to. But anything long-term, and I'd be left short. Two big problems are 1.) I have no place to go and 2.) I have no group of people and there's safety in numbers. One alone wouldn't last long. It's difficult to find like-minded people in a modern, urban environment. Sheeple......as far as the eye can see.

[kenno]

I have a VERY SHORT LIST.